Clean your carry gun! and change out your ammo.

Mark_Mark

Mark_Mark

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2021
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17,874
Lazy Lazy Lazy me!

my EDC pocket carry LC9 went funky on me today. I alway chamber and un-chamber a round in/out of the house, then going into my mini living room safe. Easy, and fast access.

After 12 months of not cleaning and only changing the chambered round every few weeks. I had a powder mess today. I Checked the cambered round, and bullet still in the case, but powder everywhere. and it completely jammed up the gun.

After stripping and cleaning the gun, the last 2 cartridges in the mag was the issue. The bullet came loose and made a huge mess, and rendered the gun dead.

Conclusion; Strip and clean your gun, change out all the ammo, not just the top of the mags.
 
Clearing your gun every day is a really bad idea. It requires more gun handling, increasing the chances of a fumble and an ND.
It also beats the dickens out of the repeatedly chambered round, a significant thing for sometimes scarce ammo.
Yes, you should shoot away/replace your carry ammo, and yes, the carry gun should get a periodic fieldstrip and lube.
But if you're slipping it into a lockbox, so that it is out of reach, and you habitually check guns for their status, before handling, there's no harm in leaving it loaded.
Moon
 
1KPerDay said:
Mark_Mark said:
After 12 months of ... chambered round every few weeks ... had a powder mess ... and bullet still in the case, but powder everywhere. and it completely jammed up the gun
Click to expand...
what ammo was it? That's pretty strange
Click to expand...
More like repeated bullet nose bumping on feed ramp loosening the neck tension, ultimately sending bullet forward out of case neck from slide cycling velocity/chambering force.

I tell people to measure their EDC rounds for bullet setback and if they notice significant setback, to rotate out with fresh ammunition.
1KPerDay said:
IMO sounds like a good argument for carrying factory defensive ammo.
Click to expand...
This happens with factory ammunition more so as "finishing" dies are used to iron smooth bulged case neck and lead core is reduced but brass spring back could reduce neck tension. This is why our reloads that retain good neck tension by expressing bulged case neck by bullet base produce less/no bullet setback when chambered. ;) https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...un-brass-worth-it.912195/page-2#post-12454962


Disclaimer: Following information provided for educational purposes only.

If you do not want to induce bullet setback/lessening neck tension, you can manually chamber a round and releasing the slide or press in the extractor spring part and ease the extractor over the case rim then pushing the slide to full battery.
 
Last edited:
LiveLife said:
More like repeated bullet nose bumping on feed ramp loosening the neck tension, ultimately sending bullet forward out of case neck from slide cycling velocity/chambering force.

I tell people to measure their EDC rounds for bullet setback and if they notice significant setback, to rotate out with fresh ammunition.

This happens with factory ammunition more so as "finishing" dies are used to iron smooth bulged case neck and lead core is reduced but brass spring back could reduce neck tension. This is why our reloads that retain good neck tension by expressing bulged case neck by bullet base produce less/no bullet setback when chambered. ;) https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...un-brass-worth-it.912195/page-2#post-12454962


Disclaimer: Following information provided for educational purposes only.

If you do not want to induce bullet setback/lessening neck tension, you can manually chamber a round and releasing the slide or press in the extractor spring part and ease the extractor over the case rim then pushing the slide to full battery.
Click to expand...
All of this assumes all the rounds in the mag were repeatedly chambered. OP said only the chambered round was changed out every few weeks. Clarifcation needed
 
1KPerDay said:
All of this assumes all the rounds in the mag were repeatedly chambered. OP said only the chambered round was changed out every few weeks. Clarifcation needed
Click to expand...
It was the last 2 rounds of the mag, probably from moving up & down the mag hundreds of times.

maybe something to do with the geometry of that mag design that puts stress on the bottom rounds, idk, I do know that I’m changing all the ammo out every month to not have this issue anymore.
 
...but I’m not here to debate on Factory vs. Reloads.
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I get it, but it's worth noting that the failure mode you have described is very unusual. I've never heard of anyone else experiencing it, certainly not with factory ammunition. For one thing, it's sort of strange that there would be room in a magazine for the bullet in a standard 9mm round to back out all the way. The rounds you are loading must be quite short, something unlikely to be seen in factory ammo.

Frankly, I don't think that the lesson here is to clean the gun or change out the ammo frequently--although those are both good principles. I think there are two lessons here:

1. Don't eject and rechamber rounds unnecessarily. If bullets are backing out, they are probably setting back as well.

2. If you're going to bet your life on your reloads, make sure you reload ammo that's at least as good as the factory does, and that includes things like taking any necessary steps to make sure bullets don't back out in the magazine, as well as any other bizarre failures that a handloader might not think of but a factory might realize is a concern.
 
JohnKSa said:
it's worth noting that the failure mode you have described is very unusual.

If you're going to bet your life on your reloads ... necessary steps to make sure bullets don't back out in the magazine, as well as any other bizarre failures
Click to expand...
I agree, there's need to investigate further and do some "root cause analysis" if OP is going to continue using these reloads for defensive purposes.

For me, I prefer to use factory ammunition for HD/SD because I don't want my reloading equipment/supplies held as evidence if police investigation ensues ... Handing over couple of same lot boxes of factory ammunition is so much easier and more convenient, for me. ;)
 
What I have learned… you/me are not always right. Ego vs. Reality vs. Balance

and most of all, Try some factory ammo as a standard to test your EDC process!

thanks everyone

What Factory Defense 9mm ammo do you guys like?
 
Heh...

I always like the people who absolutely insist on rotating their ammo through their magazine so much! Yeah, I get it...if I go to the range to shoot my carry piece, I unload my carry ammo and shoot my target ammo, then rotate the carry rounds back into my gun. But periodically, I just unload the gun the fun way, but shooting my carry ammo and then reload with new when I'm done at the range.

Carry ammo isn't THAT expensive that I can't afford to occasionally just shoot up the ammo in my carry and spare magazine and reload fresh. With my Colt 1991A1, that's 15 rounds total. With my Walther CCP-M2, that's 17 rounds. A couple boxes of self-defense ammo lasts a long time, even so. It's not gold or platinum...shoot that stuff up once in a while and use some fresh ammo!


ANOTHER POINT ABOUT CLEANING:

People quite often go "crazy" about proving the reliability of their carry piece with phenomenal amounts of ammunition. Like 500 or 1,000 rounds of flawless performance before they'll carry it for self-defense. Only to have someone like me totally mess their day up.

"So...was that 1,000 round of flawless performance with your chosen carry ammo or target ammo?"

"OK...so now you've proven the reliability of your weapon, which you've now cleaned and loaded up with your self-defense ammo. How do you KNOW it's going to perform flawlessly after you've completely disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled it? Did you test fire it?"

:D:D:D
 
Mark_Mark said:
What I have learned… you/me are not always right. Ego vs. Reality vs. Balance

and most of all, Try some factory ammo as a standard to test your EDC process!

thanks everyone

What Factory Defense 9mm ammo do you guys like?
Click to expand...

Timely post for me! I've been shooting my Shield since early summer without cleaning (just guessing it's been 3-400 rounds total) to see how long before it "failed" and that is what happened yesterday! The slide started sticking a bit and needed a gentle nudge to go into full battery. Not too shabby, and much better than my Sig P238 which needs cleaned after about 100 rounds or so.

I need to be more conscientious about rotating my ammo...
 
Mark_Mark said:
What Factory Defense 9mm ammo do you guys like?
Click to expand...

Good question.

With my Beretta 92F, my chosen was Gold Dot 115 grain HP. This was because on the range I couldn't tell the difference in performance between that any the 115 grain WWB ammo I typically shoot in it. However, I rarely carry that particular pistol.

I have a Walther CCP-M2 in 9mm that I haven't tried any hollowpoint ammo through yet, so I haven't picked any self-defense to try in it yet. In truth, I haven't gone through enough FMJ yet to settle on a preferred mass. So far it seems to like 115 gr. and 124 gr. equally. I haven't tried any 147 gr. yet.

I have some Gold Dot 115 gr., but I'm keeping it handy for my Beretta. Self-defense ammo is insanely expensive right now, and Gold Dot is pretty hard to find right now. $40 for a 50 round box of Sig Sauer Elite V-Crown in 147 gr. is about as good a deal as I've seen in the stores recently. Federal self defense rounds are insane for 20 round boxes. Cor Bon is better, but their 20 round boxes ain't much of a deal, either. And a lot of other stuff is "out of stock" where I'd normally buy it (The Armory in Virginia Beach).

Next trip to the range will be some quality target time, now that I'm a bit more used to my Walther. I need to see how my sight modifications help my aging eyes with accuracy, then I can make a decision on a few different self-defense ammo choices to try out for comparison.

My goal is to find a self-defense round that is not only reliable, but indistinguishable on the target at the range when I shoot them. This way I'll know my target ammo will be a reasonable training choice.
 
JohnKSa said:
I get it, but it's worth noting that the failure mode you have described is very unusual. I've never heard of anyone else experiencing it, certainly not with factory ammunition. For one thing, it's sort of strange that there would be room in a magazine for the bullet in a standard 9mm round to back out all the way. The rounds you are loading must be quite short, something unlikely to be seen in factory ammo.

Frankly, I don't think that the lesson here is to clean the gun or change out the ammo frequently--although those are both good principles. I think there are two lessons here:

1. Don't eject and rechamber rounds unnecessarily. If bullets are backing out, they are probably setting back as well.

2. If you're going to bet your life on your reloads, make sure you reload ammo that's at least as good as the factory does, and that includes things like taking any necessary steps to make sure bullets don't back out in the magazine, as well as any other bizarre failures that a handloader might not think of but a factory might realize is a concern.
Click to expand...
This type of ammunition failure was exactly the scenario that occurred when a local sheriffs office had a major shootout with a guy up in the mountains.

Several of their patrol rifles had 5.56/.223 bullets loosen after 1-2 years ( or more!) of being in magazines in patrol cars. Deputies found some of the bottom rounds had bullets that had worked out (or were pushed in) and powder had spilled into their magazines. This discovery led to a county-wide swap out of all duty ammo and a rotation policy to keep fresh ammo on board.

While patrol rifles locked in metal racks are certainly rattled a whole lot more than 99% of our ccw pistols would be, bullet loosening can happen. Always a good idea to check stuff and regularly maintain your ccw. (I personally don’t unload/load every night but to each their own.)

Stay safe.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
Good question.

With my Beretta 92F, my chosen was Gold Dot 115 grain HP. This was because on the range I couldn't tell the difference in performance between that any the 115 grain WWB ammo I typically shoot in it. However, I rarely carry that particular pistol.

I have a Walther CCP-M2 in 9mm that I haven't tried any hollowpoint ammo through yet, so I haven't picked any self-defense to try in it yet. In truth, I haven't gone through enough FMJ yet to settle on a preferred mass. So far it seems to like 115 gr. and 124 gr. equally. I haven't tried any 147 gr. yet.

I have some Gold Dot 115 gr., but I'm keeping it handy for my Beretta. Self-defense ammo is insanely expensive right now, and Gold Dot is pretty hard to find right now. $40 for a 50 round box of Sig Sauer Elite V-Crown in 147 gr. is about as good a deal as I've seen in the stores recently. Federal self defense rounds are insane for 20 round boxes. Cor Bon is better, but their 20 round boxes ain't much of a deal, either. And a lot of other stuff is "out of stock" where I'd normally buy it (The Armory in Virginia Beach).

Next trip to the range will be some quality target time, now that I'm a bit more used to my Walther. I need to see how my sight modifications help my aging eyes with accuracy, then I can make a decision on a few different self-defense ammo choices to try out for comparison.

My goal is to find a self-defense round that is not only reliable, but indistinguishable on the target at the range when I shoot them. This way I'll know my target ammo will be a reasonable training choice.
Click to expand...
Heck Yeah! match a Defense ammo to your range target ammo! when you know your gun you trust your gun!
 
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