New .45 Colt S&W N-Frame onboard!

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Slamfire said:
Anyway, I recommend trying to find the later, dash 7 or higher, 45LC's, as most 45 caliber bullets are 0.452 in diameter.
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I'm not disputing your suggestion or information and everyone knows the reliability of information on the internet but I had heard that S&W fixed the throats on later production runs on Model 25-5's. Just consider the source.

My 6" Model 25-5 was purchased new back in the day and it seems to shoot as well as any other revolvers that I have. At the time I obtained the 25-5, I was shooting alot IHMSA silhouette. I had to press the 25-5 into service for one match after I cracked the forcing cone on the Model 19 I was using for revolver class. I could reliably hit the 200 meter rams with the 25-5 once I figured out the hold over I needed for the 45 Colt cartridge and its rainbow trajectory.

Of course, some accuracy issues may be related to the "loose nut" located between the trigger and sight picture.:)

I shoot mostly cast or powder coated bullets in the 6" 25-5 but plated and jacketed perform well. I've not made any attempt to find .454" dia bullets.

My 4" and 8-3/8" 25-5's were made within 6-8 months or so as the 6" but I really have not put many rounds through them. I have not been disappointed in them--yet.

Maybe I'll see if I can find a -7 or newer 45 Colt Model and see how it compares to my 25-5's. You just cannot have too many 45 Colt revolvers especially if they are a Model 25.

Thanks for your good information.
 
The local Cabelas recently had a Brazilian 1917 that someone had turned into a "Fitz Special" with the cut-away trigger guard and sawed-off barrel. It was not especially well executed and they wanted $1,395.00. I gave it a hard pass.

Yeah, it was HIS GUN, (the previous owner/idiot) and he'd do what he wanted with it, until he died or got bored with it or whatever...one less original 1917- sheesh. I read once about a guy that did that with a Triple-Lock, it made me want to weep.
OP, those are some sweet M25s!
 
Nice Pistol! A 25 is on my want list. But I'm thinking of a 25-5 thats pinned and recessed. Pinned and recessed is just a personal think. I know that pressed fit barrels can shoot very well.
 
lightman said:
Nice Pistol! A 25 is on my want list. But I'm thinking of a 25-5 thats pinned and recessed. Pinned and recessed is just a personal think. I know that pressed fit barrels can shoot very well.
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If you buy a 25-5, it may be pinned, but will not be recessed. The only Smiths that were recessed were magnum and rimfire revolvers. The .45 Colt never came from the factory with a recessed cylinder.
 
I had a couple 25-5's that were lost in a burglary in the 1980's. Great firearms.

I never have replaced them per se. Now I have a 25-2 with both ACP and Colt cylinders. The Colt cylinder is the one that gets used far more than the ACP does. The last time the ACP cylinder was on there was in 2011.

And a M25-3 which is a great shooter too. There is something about a 45 Colt cartridge. It's magic.
 

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Howdy

I have lots of revolvers chambered for 45 Colt, but this is the only Smith and Wesson revolver I have chambered for 45 Colt.

Model 25-3 125th Anniversary Commemorative that left the factory in 1977. Yeah, it's a little gaudy with the gold plated engraving, but it is the only 45 Colt S&W I have been able to find.

pnv3kLSOj.jpg



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It came with the wooden presentation box.

pno9zPPOj.jpg




The only thing missing is the little S&W medallion.

po0CmYJkj.jpg
 
Driftwood Johnson said:
Howdy

I have lots of revolvers chambered for 45 Colt, but this is the only Smith and Wesson revolver I have chambered for 45 Colt.

Model 25-3 125th Anniversary Commemorative that left the factory in 1977. Yeah, it's a little gaudy with the gold plated engraving, but it is the only 45 Colt S&W I have been able to find.
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Mine's missing the coin too. But who cares, it cost $1200 last year and it is a tack driver. You need to shoot it!
 
Besides the 45 Colt Model 25-5’s I have, I also have a Model 22 Classic, a Model 25-2, and a Model 625. All are chambered in 45 ACP.

I guess I like 45 Caliber S&W N-frames.

In the 1980’s, I belonged to a range that was big into IHMSA handgun silhouette. We had sighter targets on railroad car springs at the appropriate ranges. The bottleneck fast mover cartridges would hit the 100 meter pig sighters with a splat and the target would barely move. The 45 Colt would hit the target with a resounding gong and the target would visibly sway on the spring.

Nothing like a heavy, slow moving bullet. :)

I now also have a couple 45 Colt Blackhawks but never got to shoot them at silhouette targets.
 
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Driftwood Johnson said:
Howdy

I have lots of revolvers chambered for 45 Colt, but this is the only Smith and Wesson revolver I have chambered for 45 Colt.

Model 25-3 125th Anniversary Commemorative that left the factory in 1977. Yeah, it's a little gaudy with the gold plated engraving, but it is the only 45 Colt S&W I have been able to find.
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Lots of .45 Colt chambered M25's out there, keep looking. If you get especially tired of that one, give me a call. I'll take gaudy all day. It would make an especially nice partner to my very gaudy nickel 4" M25-5.
M25-5.jpg
 
bangswitch said:
Lots of .45 Colt chambered M25's out there, keep looking. If you get especially tired of that one, give me a call. I'll take gaudy all day. It would make an especially nice partner to my very gaudy nickel 4" M25-5.
View attachment 1119107
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Anyone interested in a 4" Model 25-9 .45 Colt, looks to be nickel, for sale locally at $1,200...PM me and I will get you the info.
 
sparkyv said:
45C noobie here.

This sounds like a 45C "Ruger only" load. Does the modern M25 tolerate "Ruger only" loads well?
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I have done a lot of reading on various .45 Colt loads. Both Brian Pearce and John Linebaugh have written extensively regarding higher pressure loads for Smiths and Rugers. SAAMI standard pressure for .45 Colt is 14,000 PSI. It seems the consensus is to limit a Smith to 23,000 PSI (that is .45 ACP +P level, which they are designed for) and to max Rugers at about 32,000 PSI.

An interesting note I read from Linebaugh was that the weakness in the Smith is not the cylinder, but the frame. He states:

It may surprise many but the cylinder on the S&W .45 Colt is the same diameter as the Ruger Blackhawk. The webs (between chambers) and outside chamber wall are also the same. So basically the Ruger and S&W cylinders are identical in strength and dimension. We recommend handloads for the Ruger single action in .45 Colt caliber to 32,000 PSI levels.

While the S&W will take these loads safely such loads will greatly shorten the life of your gun. The frames on S&W are not heat treated thus are pretty soft. With loads that exceed what the gun can comfortably handle the frame stretches immediately lengthwise and then springs back. This all causes battering and soon your gun has excessive endshake. I don't know how long it takes to wreck a N frame S&W with heavy handloads but Jeff Cooper printed one time he saw a model 29 go out in the realm of 1,000 hot handloads if I remember correctly. I would agree that serious damage could be done in this amount of shooting with too heavy a handload.

Gunnotes...Smith & Wesson Mod 25-5

By: John Linebaugh
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You might want to check out Handloader #337 April 2022 issue for this article:
  • .45 Colt +P Medium Frame Sixguns Modern Revolvers Can Increase Performance -Brian Pearce
 
sparkyv said:
45C noobie here.

This sounds like a 45C "Ruger only" load. Does the modern M25 tolerate "Ruger only" loads well?
Click to expand...
I don't think that this power level should be an issue. If you go on Hodgdon https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=53 , select "45 Colt (Ruger, Freedom Arm & T/C only)", "Bullet Weight (GRS) 255", all available powders' manufacturers and powders, you will get velocities up to 1303 fps and pressures up to 25600 PSI. That shouldn't be a problem for S&W M25/625-3 and up.They all have "Endurance Package" to withstand full pčower 44 magnum ammo.
 
cfullgraf said:
...I had to press the 25-5 into service for one match after I cracked the forcing cone on the Model 19 I was using for revolver class...
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That is what kept me from going for Model 19/66, 6" barrel. Instead, I've got 686, but i don't like its weight. The only option for what I want; strong, durable, 6" barrel DA revolver in 357 Magnum, yet with reasonable weight, is Ruger Security Six.
 
Onty said:
I don't think that this power level should be an issue. If you go on Hodgdon https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center?rdc=true&type=53 , select "45 Colt (Ruger, Freedom Arm & T/C only)", "Bullet Weight (GRS) 255", all available powders' manufacturers and powders, you will get velocities up to 1303 fps and pressures up to 25600 PSI. That shouldn't be a problem for S&W M25/625-3 and up.They all have "Endurance Package" to withstand full pčower 44 magnum ammo.
Click to expand...

The endurance package did not give the ability to withstand higher pressures...it was made to keep the cylinder from rotating backwards. So it had nothing to do with strengthening the cylinder and frame, it just made the action stronger and able to take the increased pounding of heavy-for-caliber bullets at the same pressures.
 
DR505 said:
The endurance package did not give the ability to withstand higher pressures...it was made to keep the cylinder from rotating backwards. So it had nothing to do with strengthening the cylinder and frame, it just made the action stronger and able to take the increased pounding of heavy-for-caliber bullets at the same pressures.
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Yes and no!

You are right that "The endurance package did not give the ability to withstand higher pressures", and both, pre-"Endurance Package" and "Endurance Package" most likely will take safely those starting loads for 45 Colt, talking about those at "Ruger level".

However, as far as I know, when S&W introduced "Endurance Package", apart from redesign of mechanism, a number of parts (crane, some parts of internal mechanism) in their revolvers are made from stronger steels. I have no info if S&W changed steel (and/or heat treatment) of frame, cylinder and barrel. However, in Handloader Magazine - August 2008 - Issue #254, Brian Pearce wrote an article about reloading .45 AR, in which he specified at least 2, possibly 3, power levels of loads for M25/M625. Top load was 255 SWC (looks like 454424) with 2400, getting something like 1040 fps, but only for late Models M25/M625. Regarding M625, several revolvers I had seen (also posted on internet) are -3 and up, with "Endurance Package", see elongated (on front side) indexing bolt notches:

H1193-L129692176.jpg

As far as I know, .45 AR in M25/M625 never been the issue regarding revolver durability, so the only reason why Pierce insisted on top loads just on later models M25/M625 must be the strength of frame, cylinder and/or barrel. Yeah, I know that some gun writers are “creative” when writing their articles, but after following Pearce for number of years, I found that he was always right on, never seen “stretching” facts. Unfortunately, I cannot find my copy of Handloader Issue #254. Hope somebody on this forum might have this magazine and upload scanned pages, and correct me if I am wrong.

Bottom line; if am on the market for N-frame I want to shoot, it will be -2E, -3 and up. Those no dash No., -1 and -2 and I will leave to collectors and paper target shooters.
 
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Onty said:
Yes and no!

You are right that "The endurance package did not give the ability to withstand higher pressures", and both, pre-"Endurance Package" and "Endurance Package" most likely will take safely those starting loads for 45 Colt, talking about those at "Ruger level".

However, as far as I know, when S&W introduced "Endurance Package", apart from redesign of mechanism, a number of parts (crane, some parts of internal mechanism) in their revolvers are made from stronger steels. I have no info if S&W changed steel (and/or heat treatment) of frame, cylinder and barrel. However, in Handloader Magazine - August 2008 - Issue #254, Brian Pearce wrote an article about reloading .45 AR, in which he specified at least 2, possibly 3, power levels of loads for M25/M625. Top load was 255 SWC (looks like 454424) with 2400, getting something like 1040 fps, but only for late Models M25/M625. Regarding M625, several revolvers I had seen (also posted on internet) are -3 and up, with "Endurance Package", see elongated (on front side) indexing bolt notches:

View attachment 1120580

As far as I know, .45 AR in M25/M625 never been the issue regarding revolver durability, so the only reason why Pierce insisted on top loads just on later models M25/M625 must be the strength of frame, cylinder and/or barrel. Yeah, I know that some gun writers are “creative” when writing their articles, but after following Pearce for number of years, I found that he was always right on, never seen “stretching” facts. Unfortunately, I cannot find my copy of Handloader Issue #254. Hope somebody on this forum might have this magazine and upload scanned pages, and correct me if I am wrong.

Bottom line; if am on the market for N-frame I want to shoot, it will be -2E, -3 and up. Those no dash No., -1 and -2 and I will leave to collectors and paper target shooters.
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I applaud your taste.

51070082001_7986427caf_3k.jpg
 
Any time I see S&W N-frame with "Endurance Package", but with firing pin on hammer (no MIM parts) I applaud twice. Those revolvers, in my humble opinion, are the best N-frame revolvers S&W made, and I doubt that we will see better.
 
There are some beautiful .45's in this post...and thanks for the info on the dash 7 fix for the over-size throats.

I've hankered for a .45 Colt Smith M-25 for several decades. Bought one when they first came out (`78-'80?) but couldn't get it to shoot...the only Smith I've ever owned that had an accuracy problem. The cylinder throats IIRC, were 0.455" - 0.456" and the groove dia. was 0.452".

Tried cast but couldn't find a mold that would throw an alloy bullet that big. Jacketed stuff worked better, but still not up to the other Smith's in my experience. Groups with Remington lead alloy FP's ran over 6" at 25 yds and the leading was out of sight. I sold it off eventually, and have looked ever since for a replacement with matching throats and groove dia.

Lately, the last cpl years or so, I've watched GB for a Mountain Gun with an appropriate dash number indicating the point when Smith admitted their mistake and brought the throat dia's back down to 0.453" or so. They're around but most are pretty proud of them in these days of inflation and scarcity.

Best regards, Rod
 
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Rodfac said:
...I've hankered for a .45 Colt Smith M-25 for several decades. Bought one when they first came out (`78-'80?) but couldn't get it to shoot...the only Smith I've ever owned that had an accuracy problem. The cylinder throats IIRC, were 0.455" - 0.456" and the groove dia. was 0.452".

Tried cast but couldn't find a mold that would throw an alloy bullet that big. Jacketed stuff worked better, but still not up to the other Smith's in my experience. Groups with Remington lead alloy FP's ran over 6" at 25 yds and the leading was out of sight. I sold it off eventually, and have looked ever since for a replacement with matching throats and groove dia.

Lately, the last cpl years or so, I've watched GB for a Mountain Gun with an appropriate dash number indicating the point when Smith admitted their mistake and brought the throat dia's back down to 0.453" or so. They're around but most are pretty proud of them in these days of inflation and scarcity.
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Did you contact S&W and ask them to replace cylinder? As far as I know, they do those things free of charge, even when warranty expired.
 
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