One Load for the One Rifle Philosophy

C-grunt said:

If I were looking for a single load for 308 I would use a high BC hunting load like a 165 Accubond or the 178 ELD-X. Both are proven hunting bullets and have the BC to work as a longer range target round.

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This right here is pretty much right on.

I'm a fan of the hornady interlock, I have the 150 gr for my 308 and the 170 gr for my 350, I can also say the federal fusion loads in 150gr and 160 gr respectively are nice but cost quite a bit more per box

Red tipped Hornady 168 grain (you choose tip) will do all I need.

Hmmm. Given the premise of a scout or general purpose rifle, I’d say one load. And that was my practice for my primary hunting rifle for a lot of years. But some cartridges lend themselves to multiple loads, such as 120 grain BTs and 160 grain ABs in .280 Ackley. One for light and one for heavier game. And the .375 Ruger needs multiple loads for maximum utility.

Legionnaire said:

Hmmm. Given the premise of a scout or general purpose rifle, I’d say one load. And that was my practice for my primary hunting rifle for a lot of years. But some cartridges lend themselves to multiple loads, such as 120 grain BTs and 160 grain ABs in .280 Ackley. One for light and one for heavier game. And the .373 Ruger needs multiple loads for maximum utility.

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If you had to go with one load for the 375 Ruger is there a compromise load that works? I think in Africa solids for dangerous game soft points for everything else.
But here what would the go to load be?

If you are talking manual repeater, then I suppose the idea of 2-3 loads for different purposes has some merit. I'm thinking something like .300 Blackout: light bullet high velocity load for lethality under most purposes, one heavyweight for subsonic suppressed use, and maybe a third ultralight for killing small game with minimal muscle damage. Not a long range option, but no reason you couldn't try something similar with a heavier cartridge like .308. You'd want to used bullets that are very easy to distinguish, and come up with a carry system that lets you pick the desired load quickly in the dark, maybe dedicated box magazines or pockets.

The closest I've come to implementing something along these lines was my 870 shotgun, which had an elastic ammo carrier on the buttstock and a saddle carrier on the receiver -- I had slugs, buckshot and less-lethal baton rounds organized so I could pick and choose fast if a situation demanded something other than the buckshot in the magazine tube.

If you're talking autoloader, play safe and find a load that groups and operates reliably under all conditions and then quit while you are ahead.

Others have more experience with the .375 Ruger than I, so my opinion is more theoretical. I think I’d look for a modest load with a 260 grain AB. Maybe @LoonWulf will weigh in on the question.

I believe in appropriate ammunition for intended purpose. I don't think forward scope placement is a good idea but whatever. I suppose If I had to pick one load it would be a medium weight soft point in the ammunition chosen.

d2wing said:

I don't think forward scope placement is a good idea but whatever.

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Not a big fan of it meself. As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't really understand the concept of the forward mount scope/scout concept. Yes, I understand the 'both eyes open' idea... I've set a .30-30 Marlin up in just that manner for a friend... but I don't think it's a superior concept over a standard placement scope.

d2wing said:

I suppose If I had to pick one load it would be a medium weight soft point in the ammunition chosen.

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Jack of all trades...

My Scout Rifles (FR-8 Mauser & 1916 Mauser) are both .308's and for an all -around bullet/load I first used a 165 gr. Remington Cor-Lokt running right at 2700 fps. But I realized that load was pushing the rifle too hard and a bullet that heavy really wasn't necessary for the purpose of the rifle, so I switch to a 150 gr. Remington Core-Lokt at the same speed.

Charlie98 said:

Not a big fan of it meself. As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't really understand the concept of the forward mount scope/scout concept. Yes, I understand the 'both eyes open' idea... I've set a .30-30 Marlin up in just that manner for a friend... but I don't think it's a superior concept over a standard placement scope.

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I'm sure you really do understand the concept, but I'll bite any way. In addition to the 'both eyes open' thing, the forward mounted scope allows one to load or "top off" the magazine very quickly and easily and in the case of Scout Rifles based on Mauser actions, allows the use of stripper clips. I know, I know, one can load a lever action rifle with the same speed regardless of where the scope is mounted, but as I've said here many times, lever action, semi-auto, single shot et al. rifles with forward mounted scopes aren't Scout Rifles, they're just rifles with forward mounted scopes. Another nicety of the forward mounted scope, at least on my two Scout's is the ability to carry the rifle one-handed with the hand wrapped around the receiver in the bolt/magazine area.
My Scout Rifle really has been used over the last 30 years and I and my oldest daughter have killed quite the $h+t ton of deer and hogs with it. I maintain that one really has to try the forward mounted scope in the field, not in a recliner or at the range, to appreciate it.

35W

Legionnaire said:

Others have more experience with the .375 Ruger than I, so my opinion is more theoretical. I think I’d look for a modest load with a 260 grain AB. Maybe @LoonWulf will weigh in on the question.

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Mid weight bonded or monos are hard to ignore for something like a general purpose medium bore IMO.

Ive not taken heavier game than axis with my .375, but the 270btsp speers i like are a little soft when driven to the rounds potential. The 260ABs are a good compromise between staying together, expansion, and velocity.

Ive shot those 260AB, factory 250gmx (at an honest 2850 from my 23") and 270 speers, out to almost 900yds and found that if velocity is similar than trajectory is awful close. My gun happens to shoot all of them into the same groups at 100yds.....that would general make me inclined to switch between the 3 as needed.

....buuuut id probably be inclined to move upto the 300s at 2650 if I were doing a 1 and done for anything short of the big 5.

The OP mentioned scout rifle and I automatically went to AR15.

I loaded for 4 ARs. One bullet for all of them. I wasn’t looking for long range accuracy. I was looking for functionality! I could a load they will shoot sub 2” groups in all 4 rifles. Despite their 2MOA, 4MIA optics.

But I have one I am
Looking for an accurate long range for. It’s built for that.

That said, I load for a bunch of hunting rifles. That’s all about accuracy, Accuracy, ACCURACY!!!

But building AR15, .223/5.56 fodder in mass? Just something that functions reliably and is semi/accurate by my standards.

i have to play devils advocate regards these ultra tough premium bullets, particularly in big calibres. What they mostly do from where I am sitting is kill slower, make manufacturers richer and give gun writers something to write about. When I was young getting 2/3 remaining bullet weight was considered fine. Seems if a bullet cannot penetrate 6 phone books, 5" of ply and 18" of ballistic gelatin with 99% weight retention on some youtubers videos its now classed as a failure.

One load and bullet for most circumstances sure. One load for all circumstances no. The military is the perfect example, a general antipersonnel round, an armor piercing round, a tracer round and a blank round for your barrel mounted grenade launcher. For ALL circumstances you would probably want to add a subsonic round. Maybe a less than lethal round too.

I'll bite. I'm a one load, one gun type of guy when it comes to everything but shotguns and my revolvers. I reload for cost saving efficiency and simplicity. I like to find powders that give good bang for buck, so why load with 25 grains if 22 will do? Thats one extra round loaded every 7-8 rounds. It adds up for practice.

What's 50-150 fps when we are talking speeds of 2000-2150 fps, in the case of 7.62x39, or 2900-3000 fps in the case of 5.56? Am I really going to push that range, accuracy and power envelope? Gosh, if only it shot .75 MOA instead of 1, he would have survived. I think we have to be realistic with the ranges of a potential shoot/firefight.

My scout rifle is actually a quasi scout CZ 527. I sacrifice range for weight and handiness and am okay with that. I have heavier rifles with more power, but they are a pain to carry over a days period. Props to our WW2 and Vietnam generation for toting the Garand and M14, but that ain't me.

MikeInOr said:

One load and bullet for most circumstances sure. One load for all circumstances no. The military is the perfect example, a general antipersonnel round, an armor piercing round, a tracer round and a blank round for your barrel mounted grenade launcher. For ALL circumstances you would probably want to add a subsonic round. Maybe a less than lethal round too.

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With small arms the average warfighter can fight his whole war with just regular ammo though. Grenade launcher an exception but not many paralells to hunting.

Would take my stainless R700 7-08 cast rig. 2 loads,one low node round 1900.... high 2400. Would work here from rabbits to black bears.....

Mine would be my 92 Rossi 38/357. It's all the gun I need. From 125 to 200 gr bullets...

If one wants to follow the “one gun” premise, which I can support, I don’t think a “one ammo only” is a good thing.

I agree the military model is probably a good place to look. A .308 or a .223 with a good round will probably work but not be practical. Proper hunting or defensive ammo is expensive to train with. FMJ range ammo is inefficient for hunting.

I think most of us could get by with a single rifle if needed, but a couple or three different rounds would be smart to adapt the gun to the objective.

In the irrationally contrived scenario which is presented as the raison d’être for the scout rifle, carrying multiple loads for various scenarios is contraindicated. The (silly) premise in which we’re carrying one rifle which could be deployed with equal likelihood on small game, big game, or assailing forces dictates a simplified solution, and carrying multiple types of ammo for the specific varying target types beyond the muzzle opposes the philosophy.

Personally, I’ve seen the comparative results of others and done the comparison myself - forward mounted magnified optics suck, and fail to deliver on the Scout Rifle promise of faster acquisition. Stripper clip loading is a paradigm long dead, with the evolution of reliable DBM’s, and partial top-off’s, eh, again, we’re living in this fantasy world of needing a tactical (partial) reload between a sustained firefight… but ignoring the availability of DBM’s, some of which can also be topped off while in the rifle…

So yeah, “scout rifle” might carry a certain gravitas with a certain crowd, but I lend about the same credence to those folks as the folks which find gravitas in the phrase “flat earth.”

I do have multiple loads for some of my rifles, meant for differing applications, but then again, I also often find myself using just one load in some rifles despite deploying for disparate applications. Perhaps more similar to the paradigm being presented, however - when I was young(er) and still believed in “breaking down deer,” I knew my favored factory ammo of choice - the Winchester Ballistic Silvertips - had a chance of failure if impacting at close range and high velocity. So I loaded my magbox with the BST’s, but then chambered a Win PowerPoint for my first shot to be fired. If a deer came out at distance, I would cycle out the PowerPoint and send a BST after it, but if a deer came in hot and got too close before presenting a shot, I had the reduced expansion of the PP ready to send… it worked, but it was just a silly mess to invite into my life, and I outgrew it quickly.

35 Whelen said:

I maintain that one really has to try the forward mounted scope in the field, not in a recliner or at the range, to appreciate it.

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Well... I'm fixing to find out... I'm taking that Marlin on my next range trip. Maybe I'll come back a convert...

In theory I kind of like the idea of "one rifle, one load" although obviously it diminishes the utility of the rifle somewhat. If the scout weapon was a 5.56 I could happily settle on a 77gr OTM (especially if I could get a stead supply of Black Hills), and if I had a .308 I could do almost everything with a 168gr BTHP. Not ideal for everything it flattens deer pretty well and is a good target round (of course for AP use it would be more than sufficient).

If I had to take 1 rifle with 1 load. It would be a stainless synthetic stocked bolt action in 243 with a 3-9 scope, shooting 100 grain bullets. ammo is easy to find the gun and load can handle anything from varmints to big game. Even small game if you are careful with the shots.

Buzznrose said:

If one wants to follow the “one gun” premise, which I can support, I don’t think a “one ammo only” is a good thing.

I agree the military model is probably a good place to look. A .308 or a .223 with a good round will probably work but not be OPTIMAL. Proper hunting or defensive ammo is expensive to train with. FMJ range ammo is inefficient for hunting.

I think most of us could get by with a single rifle if needed, but a couple or three different rounds would be smart to adapt the gun to the objective.

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Let me fix that for you.

With the "one load one rifle" how I would answer that question requires the answer to a question of my own......Why?

If it is only costs, my answer is save a bit more and buy something suited to the task at hand. If you mostly kill cans, and want to take a deer, eat spam for a week instead of eating out and you have a box of ammo. If you are thinking availability, another question comes up.....Why is it not available, the answers to that will define my actions.

I do that with 30-30 and 6.5.
All I load for 30-30 is 160gr ftx with 33.7 to 34gr. With the lighter charge being for summertime use as leverevolution is very temperature see sensitive.
And 6.5Creedmoor being loaded with 130gr game changers and a max load of N555 or w760. I have some 140s to try but I haven't really messed with them.
Eventually I'll figure out what shoots the best and off load the loser during the next bullet shortage.