Illegally using Dogs for Deer

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Heck I do 90% of my hunting from a box stand with a heater and a cup of coffee looking at a corn pile. There's another can of worms for folks to call unethical. lol
My wife does 90% of her big game hunting from our pickup-truck with a thermos of coffee, as well as a cooler with water, lunch, snacks and soft drinks sitting behind the seat. Now before anyone yells "unethical," keep in mind that my wife is almost as old as I am (I'm 74) and she's had an Idaho Disabled Hunter Permit ever since she contracted atrial fibrillation a little over 7 years ago. The Disabled Hunter Permit allows my wife to legally shoot from a motor vehicle as long as it's not moving or on a public road.
Unethical? Maybe. o_O
On the other hand, my wife has been an avid hunter almost as long as we've been married (51 years) and she doesn't like it one darned bit that she can't get all that far from the truck anymore. But she's still getting out there hunting with our daughter, our grandsons and me. :thumbup:
 
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Dog hunting is still legal in Mississippi and I don’t have any issue with it as long as the dog hunters have enough land available to reasonably assume they can keep the dogs off their neighbors. Dogs don’t know property lines and I don’t fault them. I have only hunted rabbits and quail behind hounds, but i can sympathize with hunters who are upholding traditions. I just want them to stay off my place while they run their dogs. Live and let live and all…
 
Dog hunting is still legal in Mississippi and I don’t have any issue with it

Again, we want to discuss the ethics of hunting with dogs legally, as opposed to the theme/title of the OP.....Illegally using Dogs for Deer

Most anyone who posts here in the Hunting Forum is not opposed to the legal use of dogs for hunting. For over half a century, I have hunted behind hounds, flushers and pointers. I have used dogs for the legal blood trailing of wounded deer. They are a huge tool in many hunters arsenals. IMHO, the huge amount of the various dog breed we have, are because they have been bred specifically thru the centuries for helping us humans hunt. Period. I doubt that this will ever change. But I do believe that what is and what is not legal to do with dogs will change. Just as the laws about anyone shooting a dog chasing deer has changed. Just as what species that can be hunted with dogs has changed. Not only has that species list gotten shorter, but in the case of my state, it has gotten longer, with the inclusion of using dogs for hunting Fall Turkeys.

as long as the dog hunters have enough land available to reasonably assume they can keep the dogs off their neighbors.

...and this is the issue. In today's world, most folks don't have that land, nor do they have permission to hunt other lands where they "have enough land available". While in many parts of the country where there are large parcels of public land that will provide this, there are also many areas/sates that do not. This is a major reason hunting with hounds has fallen off so dramatically. For those running hounds that demand a large area, it is frustrating for those who still do it. But it's just the way it is. Most dog owners are responsible. Most follow game laws and regs. Some will bend them a tad, such as allowing a dog to kill a 'coon or 'possum "shaken" out of a tree, or a 'yote too tired to run anymore, but even those are declining. As are the ethics of dog breeders who used to automatically put down the runt of a litter or any pup that did not meet their expectations/desired traits, by the time they reached the age to be sold. But as long as there are humans alive that still hunt, there will be those few that will do unethical and illegal means to increase their chances of a kill. Unfortunately, we will never get away from that.



 
The laws are often dumb. But the laws no less.

Here we can shoot a deer with his head in a bag of deer cocaine or corn.
But a bear can't be killed over anything sweetened or man made
And a turkey can't be killed over any bait and the bait has to be removed 2 weeks prior even though your using a short range weapon as opposed to the rifle on the other 2.

Dogs are legal and used in the East part of the state but not the west. Laws are completely different based on region of the state, of which there are 5. Lol. South east/ south west. North East. Northwest. And Central. Rifles are legal in the west parts but not the east...seasons and bag limits are different. Lol. For falconry gray squirrel are legal and fox or red arent..... etc etc fox and grey and red squirrel even have slightly different seasons. Lol. I had a buddy get a felony for fishing with a worm....a few hundred yards from where he could have been fishing with a worm. And we were fishing with the chief detective at the time.

I try to ignore everything. People hunt my land all the time. I took my daughter last year on one of my properties and saw 2 guys in tree stands. I wasn't happy about it but I waved and kept going. Tried to circle around and not spoil there hunt. We had driven halfway up anyway though so they may have been spoiled already. We also had 2 beef hit by cars over the years because aholes left our gates open. Insurance covered one and the other we did out of pocket (cheap POS vehicle not worth filing over)

We do have bear hunters who run dogs and go driving across our lands and leaving gates open. We went to authorities and they basically said nothing we could do. Judicial use of legal traps, that may or may not have been a bit big for fox/coyote but still under the legal jaw size with the legal TIN numbers stopped the issue. Nobody wants a lame limping 8k dollar hunting dog. Bear hunting had a huge uptick years ago but it's died down now.

There was also some coon hunters who annoyed me. Came to the house at 9 and ask to hunt, then I heard dogs for a while. I assumed by hunt they meant the 100 acres behind the house.... not the pine trees in the back yard. That year we had a ton of flying squirrel too. I think the dogs were after those. Lol. Never had flying squirrel before that year or since.
 
In today's world, most folks don't have that land,

Agreed. I would say that very few people own that sort of land. It would have to be monumentally large (dogs can travel for several miles, no problem), sealed high fence, or an island. A buddy of mine had a section of land with a hog problem and brought in a hog dogger. This was actually a high fence property. The dogs got on a hog on one side of the propertyand the hog retreated to the hole in the fence on the other side of the property and the dogs followed. Fortunately, the landowner was on good terms with the neighbor and the neighbor allowed them to follow to get both the dogs and the hog.
 
Again, we want to discuss the ethics of hunting with dogs legally, as opposed to the theme/title of the OP.....Illegally using Dogs for Deer

Most anyone who posts here in the Hunting Forum is not opposed to the legal use of dogs for hunting. For over half a century, I have hunted behind hounds, flushers and pointers. I have used dogs for the legal blood trailing of wounded deer. They are a huge tool in many hunters arsenals. IMHO, the huge amount of the various dog breed we have, are because they have been bred specifically thru the centuries for helping us humans hunt. Period. I doubt that this will ever change. But I do believe that what is and what is not legal to do with dogs will change. Just as the laws about anyone shooting a dog chasing deer has changed. Just as what species that can be hunted with dogs has changed. Not only has that species list gotten shorter, but in the case of my state, it has gotten longer, with the inclusion of using dogs for hunting Fall Turkeys.



...and this is the issue. In today's world, most folks don't have that land, nor do they have permission to hunt other lands where they "have enough land available". While in many parts of the country where there are large parcels of public land that will provide this, there are also many areas/sates that do not. This is a major reason hunting with hounds has fallen off so dramatically. For those running hounds that demand a large area, it is frustrating for those who still do it. But it's just the way it is. Most dog owners are responsible. Most follow game laws and regs. Some will bend them a tad, such as allowing a dog to kill a 'coon or 'possum "shaken" out of a tree, or a 'yote too tired to run anymore, but even those are declining. As are the ethics of dog breeders who used to automatically put down the runt of a litter or any pup that did not meet their expectations/desired traits, by the time they reached the age to be sold. But as long as there are humans alive that still hunt, there will be those few that will do unethical and illegal means to increase their chances of a kill. Unfortunately, we will never get away from that.
Just say you don’t like hunting deer with dogs and be done with it already.
 
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In Virginia it is a felony to kill a dog . Also in Virginia , a dog gives you permission to go on posted property , anytime of the day or night to retrieve your dog . You can’t posses a firearm or drive a vehicle on the property unless you have the landowners permission , but you could walk right through my front yard at 1:00 am in the morning and come on my porch to get your dog and there is nothing that I can do legally about it .
I haven’t coon hunted in a couple of years but the last time I ran into a problem getting my dog off someone else’s property was a couple of years back had to call a game warden at like 2:30am get him to escort me into the tree to get my dog. It was treed 20 or so yards behind this guys house he wouldn’t let me get it.. the way the law was explained to me was we have a right to retrieve unless off posted ground then we have to have a warden to escort me u.
 
I haven’t coon hunted in a couple of years but the last time I ran into a problem getting my dog off someone else’s property was a couple of years back had to call a game warden at like 2:30am get him to escort me into the tree to get my dog. It was treed 20 or so yards behind this guys house he wouldn’t let me get it.. the way the law was explained to me was we have a right to retrieve unless off posted ground then we have to have a warden to escort me u.
IMO , that is the way it should be if the homeowner doesn’t want you on his property . In Virginia , you can just walk up to my house and get your dog at anytime of the night or day .
 
IMO , that is the way it should be if the homeowner doesn’t want you on his property . In Virginia , you can just walk up to my house and get your dog at anytime of the night or day .
And the owner should get a ticket. I understand that people like dogs and want to hunt with dogs, but I don't understand why that means the dog should give them any rights they wouldn't already have. A dog should be under the owner's control. If the owner can't keep it off posted property, then they shouldn't be hunting with it.
 
I'd just like to be able to hunt deer over bait here in Missouri. It's legal in Arkansas and Texas.
 
I don’t get the baiting laws . You can hunt over a food plot , but if you were to hunt over a feeder or salt block , that is baiting and unlawful .
 
I don’t get the baiting laws . You can hunt over a food plot , but if you were to hunt over a feeder or salt block , that is baiting and unlawful .
Comparing food plots and salt blocks makes sense, but feeders can use timers so you can habituate the animals to coming in at a particular time. I think the other difference is with feeders and salt blocks you know within a few yards where the animal will be. You don't know exactly where the animal will enter a food plot.
 
Anybody here ever have an escapee? My dad's dog who had the worlds first brain transplant, they removed his brain and replaced it with a brick. He is a runner. German Short Hair with one thing on his mind. He will bolt through the door like lightning if he sees a chance. Then off he goes for a day or two. He has a collar with a phone number on it. Last time he was found five miles away. He does the usual tricks, sit, laydown, come, etc. But when he see's an opportunity to run, he is outta here and no command is going to stop him. My dad does well with him. Takes him in the woods daily to wear him out. I say all this because sometimes a regular owner can have a lost dog, even with the best of care.
 
I had one that got what we call running fits while hunting . When he would have one he would run off . I took him to the pound , my grandpa would have done different . I wouldn’t keep a dog that I couldn’t control or come to me when called or toned . I paid $600 dollars for that dog .
 
This all reminds me of an old Jerry Clower joke. I don't recall it verbatim, but they were coon hunting and listening to the dogs run. All of a sudden the dogs went silent. The new guy asked what happened and Uncle Versey replied, "They just hit private property." That's some good training.
 
Comparing food plots and salt blocks makes sense, but feeders can use timers so you can habituate the animals to coming in at a particular time. I think the other difference is with feeders and salt blocks you know within a few yards where the animal will be. You don't know exactly where the animal will enter a food plot.

Some folks like it, to me tho that sort of hunting is kinda like the Texas high fencing route. To each his own, but again to me it sparks of killin' something in a barnyard. Sorta like shootin' one of these half tame gobblers or bucks that live on and around my place.........just somethin' ain't right about it........to me!


PS: I'll take of couple of those well trained dogs!
 
Sounds like some of y'all ain't never heard of the three S's. Now, I hunt with dogs. Squirrel, rabbit, and quail. And I sure do enjoy it. Sometimes they get on someone's place, and we go get 'em and nobody gets pissed off. Of course, we don't run during rifle or muzzeloading deer season so as not to disturb others hunting. If a man was to shoot my dog, I damn sure wouldn't appreciate it and he'd know it mighty quick.

On the flip side, I have a no second chance stray policy on my farm. Unless it's a neighbour's dog going home, if one shows up here it doesn't leave. Every stray has the potential to become a chicken killer, egg thief, or cause harm to myself or family. Most people don't like my policy, but I don't much care. It's my farm, I pay the taxes on it, and I'll be damned if anyone will tell me what I can and cannot do on it. Happily, the laws of the state of Arkansas support the landowners in cases like this, so that's the least of my concerns. Again, the three S's are a man's best friend in these situations, and most of us will do well to remember that regardless of what we think of the topic at hand.

Mac
 
I shot a nice buck Thursday in front of a hunting clubs dogs on my property . They were lined up across from my property waiting for it to hit the ditch . I think I pissed off a few people , but I don’t care , I told them that they were on my property . Saturday the dogs were getting ready to cross into my property and they cut them off with their trucks in the road beeping their horns to stop them . I guess they didn’t want me to shot another one in front of their hounds .
 
Interesting.

So....are you saying you will simply ignore/discard any and all State, Local, Federal laws you don't like? Serious question?

I generally operate within the confines of the law, except occasionally breaking the posted speed limit. I also generally get along with my neighbors, until their dogs kill my hens or their cattle destroy my orchard. In that case, I'll take care of the problem. Sometimes with the help from the county sheriff's office, but mostly on my own. Yes, I speak from experience, about which I don't aim to elaborate, but suffice to say I'm not one to be bullied. If you'll go back and reread all of my post it'll be a bit plainer to you.

Mac
 
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