Been considering getting into a progressive press

Stefan A

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Southern York County, Pa.
But I am hesitating. My main reason is speed followed closely by I like getting new tools :). Currently using a Lee turret press and I sometimes do steps individually for more exactness. Anyway, the main hesitation is potential frustration level of dealing with finicky tools when exacting precision is necessary. Reading various thread here has taught me that no one brand is going to eliminate problems and that no matter what I go with, I will have to expect problems which I will need to take time to overcome. Plus money. Funds are not unlimited and I am just not spending thousands on a machine. So, I have been leaning toward the Lee 6000 since the price is right and it seems people are happy with it. Plus I already have experience with Lee and a couple of potential issues (I can probably take their Auto Drum Powder Measure completely apart and reassemble with my eyes closed :)) Although, the monster threads here about overcoming issues is causing me to hesitate. So, I don't have any specific questions, but any comments are appreciated.
 
I consider myself interested in mechanical things but completely inept but I have little trouble in keeping my Hornady LnL running and doing minor mods on it. It sounds like you're mechanically inclined and if you're patient and decent at analyzing basic issues, do not hesitate to get a progressive.

The threads you see on fixing issues with that new Lee 6000 are exactly the resource you are looking for. Those guys are doing the hard work for you, you just have to be able to search for their fixes.

Another thing to think about, you're not guaranteed to run into all those problems anyway, you're seeing the guys running into those problems, not the possibly dozens to hundreds that are not.

On a related rambling, go on youtube and search for all the videos on the new Frankford FX-10 progressive press. Frankford released 50 of those to a test group and I'm getting the impression that those guys were picked or have some kind of agreement to report issues as they find them and Frankford seems to be redesigning and modding parts on the fly and rushing them back to the field testers. Quite interesting stuff.
 
I have generally overcome my prejudice against Lee, but not against their progressives. I had such a terrible time with a Pro 1000 that it's apparently scarred me for life. That was a very long time ago, and things may well have changed, but I'm not planning on finding out.

Probably the "friendliest" progressive I have used is the Dillon Square Deal B. It is not the most flexible thing - it requires specific dies, which are not especially easy to change out - but it comes from the factory set up and ready to make cartridges and is quite reliable, as such devices go. For folks just looking to load one or two handgun calibers with a minimum of fuss, I often recommend it.
 
I have a Dillon 650 and I’m very happy with it. I can make high volume pistol loads and switch over in 10 minutes to start making high quality precision rifle ammo.

As a matter of fact, that’s exactly what I did a few days ago. I made some 45 ACP progressively then switch to 6BRA for a match I was shooting that weekend.

E3937789-CE63-47ED-8C28-4E42981656CE.jpeg

Having dedicated tool heads helps
 
I’ve had a Lee Classic Cast Turret for a number of years. I just recently got a 6000 as my first progressive. Its early, but haven’t regretted my purchase yet. There is a learning curve, but the 6000 seems to be a very workable and reliable press so far. I use mine dedicated to 9mm right now, but could in the future do others. Still keeping the Turret for rifle and 45 Colt. I think you’d be satisfied with your purchase.

jeff
 
This goes a little against the progressive grain but if you really want to run smooth, especially with pistol ammo, prime off the press. You have been researching and reading and I bet you see priming issues 3:1 to other issue on progressives. It doesn't matter the brand they all can be finicky priming. I have an RCBS 2000 which uses arguably the best priming system, the APS strips, and I still find is easier and overall faster to prime everything first.
 
I think you have your head screwed on just right. I still use a single stage press for pistol and rifle. I like to measure each load. I rarely load more that 50 rounds at a time and I don't want to break the bank. I put my money into powder, primers and bullets. I do have a progressive for shot shells, but then I'm shoot trap, etc. 50 to 100 rounds per week and they are almost always the same load. My brother shoots several diff. gauge shotshells and he has a machine set up for each size. That might tell you how much fun it is the change sizes on a progressive press.
 
The main reason I got progressive was to save time. I have hornady lock n load with the case feeder. The whole set up is probably $1000. Did I need it? Probably not, but I had some cabelas gift cards. I can load a lot of rounds quickly so I don’t spend as much TIME reloading and more time with family. I was pretty intimidated by it to start, but there are good videos that people suggest (google lock n load set up and I’m sure you’ll find them).

If I didn’t have a progressive press, I would strongly consider the Lee press. However, I have had zero issues with my lock and load and I’m really happy with it.

Similar to you, I started with LCT and enjoyed using that. It’s just so satisfying getting a finished round every pull of the handle.
 
The advantage of the 6000 is the six stations. If you want a bullet feeder and a powder check, you have that option. If you’re not interested in that, just get the ABLP. All of your current Lee stuff will work but you only have 4 stations.
 
I have an RCBS Pro 2000 and for the most part, I love it. I only load 200 or so at a time, and it does that in very little time at all.
Like anything else, it's a learning curve. All the progressive presses have their little quirks that you'll deal with as you go along.
One poster above thinks the APS priming system is arguably the best system, well, it gets the job done, bit sometimes it still gives me fits. I wish they still had the parts available to convert mine. But I'll make due.
 
Bought a Hornady L-N-L several years ago. It was slow and often frustrating at first, but I eventually learned to use it effectively. Now I use it to load 5 different handgun cartridges without much difficulty.

I later added a 3D printed case feeder which sped things up nicely. I do all the reloading steps on the press in one pass (except depriming which I do before case cleaning). And I expand and drop powder in separate steps. I don't see myself going back to single stage as long as I continue to shoot a few thousand a year of those cartridges.
 
Along with everything else, I have a Dillon RL550 and load the bulk of my pistol ammo on it. I used to have 4 SDB's set up for pistol cartridges but sold them all and went with the RL550. It loads good ammo and hasn't had many issues. Note that I don't try to break speed records with it and I pay attention when I am loading. I have a Lee Classic Cast Turret press for all my rifle rounds (and pistol for small batches). I think it is a good combination. My biggest bitch with the Dillon is setting up the powder measure. It takes some patience and time. For short test batches, I will charge off the press on my Redding thrower, pulling the cartridge off the shell plate, charging and then replacing and indexing. It works well.
 
My first progressive was a 12ga MEC. Simple, fast, high volume.

Finally decided to get a metallic progressive. Looked hard at the Lock n load, Lee (reviews weren't great), found a DEAL on a Dillon.
Was already set up for .357, which was what I wanted. Been happy with it.
IMO, toss up between Dillon and LnL
 
They make perfect sense for competitive shooters who know their load and shoot it by the thousands. I have a square deal B that sits in the attic. I used to shoot 9mm and .45 in bunches and myself and two BIL’s used to shoot those calibers all the time. A thousand at a time did not last. Lately I load in groups on my Rock Chucker in about 5 calibers and not enough volume to support buying and setting up the caliber conversions. I am proficient, break it down in stages and can produce a few hundred at a time with little effort. That is as long as I stick to known loads and can keep from playing with things. I like and do experiment too much. Also consider the cost. I don’t load 9mm any longer as I can buy in bulk at a price that almost makes it not worth the effort and time. Same goes for 5.56/.223. Break down and set up can be time consuming on most progressive presses if you have only one and load several calibers. Most guys that shoot competitively have individual machines dedicated to a particular load. That makes sense to me but doesn’t fit my shooting habit.
 
I've had a Lee ABLP for about 5 years with all the accessories that make it a "4000." The 4000 didn't come out as a package until later. I moved away from it a little over two years ago but I still use it for a few operations.

Progressives are no good for producing precision cartridges from start-to-finish. I know some people will want to argue with that right off the bat, but how many of them are trickling on their progressive? Another major shortcoming of loading from start-to-finish with a progressive is that reloading is really divided into three major steps: brass cleaning, brass preparation, and loading.

Brass cleaning can't be done on the press. High-volume, low-precision shooters won't care about primer pockets or maybe even cleanliness altogether, but I don't have any "plinkers." Many progressive reloaders will load dirty brass on their presses, but some could decap and clean their brass before bringing it to the press. Even if the brass is cleaned before decapping, it still cannot be annealed on the press.

To resize, carbide dies or lube is used. Carbide dies rarely offer the same case to chamber conformity as steel dies, and of course they're not generally available for bottleneck cartridges. If the cases are lubed before sizing, they'll have to come off the press again to be cleaned before they're loaded. There are some polymer-based lubes like One-Shot that can be left on, but I've found that those lubes work well with carbide dies and straight-wall cartridges but not so well with harder resizing of bottleneck cartridges in steel dies. Once the brass is sized, it will likely need to come off the press for trimming. There are some on-press trimming methods, but the best methods to get square case mouths are off-press.

To load the brass, most progressive users employ a case-activated powder measure. These meter by volume which has limited precision, especially with stick and flake powders. The only way to get precision is by trickling. Because they often depend on the case mouth to impart the force to activate the linkage for the powder drum or disc, the case mouth can easily be damaged. Precision reloaders put a lot of effort into case mouths and necks, and then the progressive reloading smashes it against the powder measure. No thanks.

The progressive press does have some features that are of high value. The case feeder is a big time saver. Because the cases must come off the press frequently as explained above, a case feeder is a tremendous help. Even after I shifted away from loading on a progressive, I continue to use the progressive with the case feeder to decap. It's a great decapping machine. The case feeder also makes loading brass for resizing straight-wall cartridges more efficient. I won't resize bottle-neck brass on my progressive because I find the Lee ABLP way too flimsy to achieve precision in shoulder bump. I believe it could be done with a heavy-duty Dillon or similar. For handgun brass, I am using three dies to size and expand the cases. The progressive with the case feeder works well for this operation. I will say that the Lee case feeder works well enough to be helpful, but otherwise it is troublesome. I've learned to minimize jams and malfunctions and also to clear them quickly, but it is far from being trouble-free. It is cheap though.

Once I've loaded the cases with powder, the case feeder is not useful, so I would not go back to the progressive for anything beyond that. When I did load on a progressive, I used a drum powder measure and an RCBS lockout die to check powder levels. I also used a Lee bullet feeder, but found it worked poorly and changes from one bullet to another were finicky. Now I visually inspect all the powder charges in a loading block before placing bullets.

Seating bullets is another precision operation that I think is best performed on a single stage. I had a LCT with the case ejector. Once a bullet is seated, it could be crimped and ejected in a turret or progressive. There's some efficiency to be gained there. Because I want the precision of a single stage for seating, I learned to hold two cartridges with the fingers of one hand. I can pull a cartridge out of the shell holder and place the next one in it without having to go back and forth from the loading block. My hand moves to place and pick the next cartridge from the block while the other arm is pulling the lever. I keep the block close so less movement is needed.
 
But I am hesitating. My main reason is speed followed closely by I like getting new tools :). Currently using a Lee turret press and I sometimes do steps individually for more exactness. Anyway, the main hesitation is potential frustration level of dealing with finicky tools when exacting precision is necessary. Reading various thread here has taught me that no one brand is going to eliminate problems and that no matter what I go with, I will have to expect problems which I will need to take time to overcome. Plus money. Funds are not unlimited and I am just not spending thousands on a machine. So, I have been leaning toward the Lee 6000 since the price is right and it seems people are happy with it. Plus I already have experience with Lee and a couple of potential issues (I can probably take their Auto Drum Powder Measure completely apart and reassemble with my eyes closed :)) Although, the monster threads here about overcoming issues is causing me to hesitate. So, I don't have any specific questions, but any comments are appreciated.

I can understand your interest in the Lee Sixpack kit and your concern with the monster threads.

The activity in those Monster threads has gone thru a respectable down turn/decline, and that indicates (to me) most bugs have been worked thru and owners are now just running them as intended.
Search utube for vids and you will see the same problems/solutions have been worked thru by owners and Lee and proud owners posting vids now.

There's even this Precision Lee Six Pack page on Facebook:
(4) Lee Precision Six Pack Progressive Press, users group. | Facebook
Everything posted there pretty much parrots what's posted here though.
.
I have come to the realization that most all progressive problems relate to priming and DE-priming.
The most common of these problems are:
1.- a crimped primer being sucked back in during DE-priming and tying up the indexing.
2.- Primer smooge or dumped powder (no primer) tying up the primer pin and the indexing.

De-priming and wet tumbling with pins eliminates both those problems as the crimp can be removed when felt during DE-priming and primer smooge is removed via tumbling.

So, as my tag signature reads: Size/Prime a few cases when starting off with a progressive and put them aside. You can plug them back into the process when a bad/odd case screws up in the priming station and continue loading.
 
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Like with any press the ammo it produces is limited to the operator's skill & knowledge. AP require more attention to detail. Most any the presses are capable of making good ammo. The nice thing I see about the Lee 6000 is they are serious about making this press preform trouble free. Most new presses take a few years or longer depending on mfg commitment to get the bugs worked out. When I moved to a AP it was a toss between the Hornady and Dillon. The Hornady won since Dillon had not fixed a know problem with the 650 if 35+ yrs.. Recently it got replaced with one that addressed the problem.
 
I've had a Lee ABLP for about 5 years with all the accessories that make it a "4000." The 4000 didn't come out as a package until later. I moved away from it a little over two years ago but I still use it for a few operations.

Progressives are no good for producing precision cartridges from start-to-finish. I know some people will want to argue with that right off the bat, but how many of them are trickling on their progressive? Another major shortcoming of loading from start-to-finish with a progressive is that reloading is really divided into three major steps: brass cleaning, brass preparation, and loading.

Brass cleaning can't be done on the press. High-volume, low-precision shooters won't care about primer pockets or maybe even cleanliness altogether, but I don't have any "plinkers." Many progressive reloaders will load dirty brass on their presses, but some could decap and clean their brass before bringing it to the press. Even if the brass is cleaned before decapping, it still cannot be annealed on the press.

To resize, carbide dies or lube is used. Carbide dies rarely offer the same case to chamber conformity as steel dies, and of course they're not generally available for bottleneck cartridges. If the cases are lubed before sizing, they'll have to come off the press again to be cleaned before they're loaded. There are some polymer-based lubes like One-Shot that can be left on, but I've found that those lubes work well with carbide dies and straight-wall cartridges but not so well with harder resizing of bottleneck cartridges in steel dies. Once the brass is sized, it will likely need to come off the press for trimming. There are some on-press trimming methods, but the best methods to get square case mouths are off-press.

To load the brass, most progressive users employ a case-activated powder measure. These meter by volume which has limited precision, especially with stick and flake powders. The only way to get precision is by trickling. Because they often depend on the case mouth to impart the force to activate the linkage for the powder drum or disc, the case mouth can easily be damaged. Precision reloaders put a lot of effort into case mouths and necks, and then the progressive reloading smashes it against the powder measure. No thanks.

The progressive press does have some features that are of high value. The case feeder is a big time saver. Because the cases must come off the press frequently as explained above, a case feeder is a tremendous help. Even after I shifted away from loading on a progressive, I continue to use the progressive with the case feeder to decap. It's a great decapping machine. The case feeder also makes loading brass for resizing straight-wall cartridges more efficient. I won't resize bottle-neck brass on my progressive because I find the Lee ABLP way too flimsy to achieve precision in shoulder bump. I believe it could be done with a heavy-duty Dillon or similar. For handgun brass, I am using three dies to size and expand the cases. The progressive with the case feeder works well for this operation. I will say that the Lee case feeder works well enough to be helpful, but otherwise it is troublesome. I've learned to minimize jams and malfunctions and also to clear them quickly, but it is far from being trouble-free. It is cheap though.

Once I've loaded the cases with powder, the case feeder is not useful, so I would not go back to the progressive for anything beyond that. When I did load on a progressive, I used a drum powder measure and an RCBS lockout die to check powder levels. I also used a Lee bullet feeder, but found it worked poorly and changes from one bullet to another were finicky. Now I visually inspect all the powder charges in a loading block before placing bullets.

Seating bullets is another precision operation that I think is best performed on a single stage. I had a LCT with the case ejector. Once a bullet is seated, it could be crimped and ejected in a turret or progressive. There's some efficiency to be gained there. Because I want the precision of a single stage for seating, I learned to hold two cartridges with the fingers of one hand. I can pull a cartridge out of the shell holder and place the next one in it without having to go back and forth from the loading block. My hand moves to place and pick the next cartridge from the block while the other arm is pulling the lever. I keep the block close so less movement is needed.

I'm confused by some of this.

I wouldn't load "precision" rifle rounds on a progressive, but high-level handgunners do it all the time. When Ross Seyfried loaded cartridges for his minute of angle revolver, he used his Dillon progressive. (He also used carbide dies.)

I've never heard of anyone cleaning or annealing on the press. (Nor have I ever heard of anyone advocate for running dirty brass through one.)

Benchrest shooters often use "meter by volume" powder measures, and often forgo cleaning primer pockets.

As I say, I wouldn't personally use a progressive for rifle cartridges meant for extreme accuracy - but I don't think I've ever heard of anyone who needed such cartridges in volume. Is the OP that guy?
 
It's enough to think through your workflow. If you're satisfied with decaping dirty brass and dumping primer pocket debris on the same progressive that you size on, then at least you're making an informed decision. Think through annealing, trimming, and trickling and any other operations that are less likely to be done on a progressive and see if the value proposition for the progressive endures.

I use a progressive. I've loaded over 15000 rounds using it exclusively -- not a lot by some measures, but enough to get to know it -- but now I use it mostly for decapping. I just bought a Lee ACP and it will probably take over that duty. I also use the progressive separately for sizing/expanding handgun brass with multiple dies. That's all I will use it for nowadays. Because I use it only for that, it would be hard to justify a better progressive like Dillon or Mark VII, but those presses have much better case feeders (key feature), and they are sturdy enough to resize large rifle cartridges.
 
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