Been considering getting into a progressive press

Stefan A said:

This is probably the biggest hesitation right now. Do I REALLY need it? No, I don't. I have to justify this much expense into something I don't really need. But then again, it's a hobby, and that's how hobbies are.

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This was me a few years ago when the 4000 came out. I really went back and forth about it. For the price I thought it was a no brainer but I never did it. A couple years passed and I priced out a 550 and what I’d need for a couple calibers and I thought….. no I really don’t need one but the thought was still there. By the time the 6000 came out with the improved priming system I quickly bought one of the first ones. With the help on this forum I knew of updates. Lee has been great with a no questions asked and shipping the updated parts in a couple days of when I opened a support call.

I probably didn’t “need” it. My volume varies year to year for 9mm from a high of about 5000 rounds to a low of about 2200 per year. COVID years were the low due to a little lower shooting and component availability. Is that a lot ? Depends, for me it’s quite a bit on a turret. It’s not a lot of rounds to some on this forum, but to some of my friends it quite a bit. I’m glad I got the press and it speeds up reloading sessions nicely. For the price you really can’t go wrong.
Jeff

If you go with a progressive, I suggest you get one with auto-indexing. I've seen a lot of people forget where they are in the loading cycle only to end up double charging one round. With auto indexing that can't happen.

I like the Dillon 650 or 750. Expensive but well worth it. If you shoot a volume of ammo they pay for themselves in a short amount of time. I was loading about 800 rounds per hour on my 650.

For my money, if a fellow is shooting (or would, if he had the ammo) more than maybe a hundred rounds a week, a progressive is a good plan. And somewhere around five hundred rounds a week, it's practically a necessity unless you are either sponsored or wealthy. There was a time when I was shooting several thousand rounds a week, and the Dillon 1050 (and my credit card!) was in constant use.

It is worth noting that at some point, loading in volume becomes something more like a chore than a hobby. Progressives really amount to A) pulling a lever, B) topping off various hoppers, and C) fixing stuff that breaks.

I personally am glad to have had the experience, but I'll also note that I've never enjoyed handloading as much as I do now, putting together the occasional batch of fifty on an ancient single stage, using bullets cast by hand, and thinking about Elmer and Skeeter and grandpa while I do it.

.38 Special said:

For my money, if a fellow is shooting (or would, if he had the ammo) more than maybe a hundred rounds a week, a progressive is a good plan. And somewhere around five hundred rounds a week, it's practically a necessity unless you are either sponsored or wealthy. There was a time when I was shooting several thousand rounds a week, and the Dillon 1050 (and my credit card!) was in constant use.

It is worth noting that at some point, loading in volume becomes something more like a chore than a hobby. Progressives really amount to A) pulling a lever, B) topping off various hoppers, and C) fixing stuff that breaks.

I personally am glad to have had the experience, but I'll also note that I've never enjoyed handloading as much as I do now, putting together the occasional batch of fifty on an ancient single stage, using bullets cast by hand, and thinking about Elmer and Skeeter and grandpa while I do it.

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Everyone forgets about Bill Jordan and JD Jones.

.38 Special said:

For my money, if a fellow is shooting (or would, if he had the ammo) more than maybe a hundred rounds a week, a progressive is a good plan. And somewhere around five hundred rounds a week, it's practically a necessity unless you are either sponsored or wealthy. There was a time when I was shooting several thousand rounds a week, and the Dillon 1050 (and my credit card!) was in constant use.















It is worth noting that at some point, loading in volume becomes something more like a chore than a hobby. Progressives really amount to A) pulling a lever, B) topping off various hoppers, and C) fixing stuff that breaks.















I personally am glad to have had the experience, but I'll also note that I've never enjoyed handloading as much as I do now, putting together the occasional batch of fifty on an ancient single stage, using bullets cast by hand, and thinking about Elmer and Skeeter and grandpa while I do it.

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I got into the progressive when I got into auto loader pistols. I could go thru some 40s on a weekend back in the day at my buddies place. It made perfect sense then.

I sure don't use that thing like I used to, but it's right nice to load up a couple months worth of shooting in an afternoon. I go thru a bit every yr, but Im fortunate to have the range outside the loading room door.

My old Rock Chucker still sees regular use for rifle. Hunting loads for handgun are done on the Pro2000, but I remove the powder measure and charge by hand

GeoDudeFlorida said:

Everyone forgets about Bill Jordan and JD Jones.

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I had rotten results with the J.D. Jones bullets, and I never could work up much enthusiasm for Contenders. I do have the hand-dandy patented Bill Jordan loading kit, which consists of a hand priming tool and a block of paraffin wax.

Honestly, I have plenty of respect for both gentlemen. It's just that when I think of outdoorsmen with revolvers, neither really comes to mind, or at least not nearly to the degree of Elmer and Skeeter.

And how's that for a thread derailment?

Stefan A said:

My main reason is speed followed closely by I like getting new tools .

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They say time is money. I say once time passes, you can’t get it back. I went to a progressive for the same reasons, did a lot of research, set a budget, and started on the LNL with a case feeder. The decision was between a LNL and a Dillon. I recently upgraded to an RL1100 for my most used calibers. They all work, they all take a bit of care and feeding.
The competition crowd has an annual survey that asks “if you reload, what press?”. Dillon ranks in the 90 percentile and LNL in the 10s if that. I don’t believe there’s mention of any others. FWIW.

I read in some posts someone said you need to use the progressive often or it’s a problem. I’ve never experienced that, and in the winters here sometimes the press sits for months not doing anything. There was also a statement about producing a lot of junk. While that’s possible, you need to add the appropriate QC steps to insure there’s not a problem.

Finally, I recommend a lock out die, and, get into the habit of looking in every case before you place a bullet there for seating to check for powder. Good luck.

I load on a single stage, usually 50 at a time, sometimes a hundred, rarely more. Sometimes I load a batch in one sitting, and sometimes a batch takes a week or two. But I wanted to comment on this:

OrangePwrx9 said:

1) Regardless of make/model you'll have to use it frequently. Letting it sit for a month or three while you shoot up what you loaded on it isn't an option. The mechanical parts will get sticky and refuse to work right/at-the-proper-time/quickly-enough and there'll be problems. You will forget some of its quirks and not operate it correctly. I'd say a couple of hour-long sessions a week are called for

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Sometimes my press sits unused for a few months (or longer), and sometimes it does seem to be a little sticky when I get back to using it. Not always, but sometimes. Lube helps, as does just working the lever a few times every now and then, even if you're not loading.

Stefan A said:

Do I REALLY need it? No, I don't. I have to justify this much expense into something I don't really need. But then again, it's a hobby, and that's how hobbies are.

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IF you treat this as a hobby, AND you want it AND can afford it, THEN I would say by all means, do it. If you find you don't like it, you can always sell it and recoup at least some of the cost, maybe even all of it. You may find that you like it, and it may be a good investment to further your hobby. And you can always use your turret if you choose to.

There are many different ways to approach any hobby, and what I do works for me, but may not be ideal for someone else. If I started shooting again as much as I used to, I would most likely get a progressive, but I was shooting 10K ~ 15K rounds a year back then, now I only shoot 1K ~ 2K, maybe less some years, so I just stick with my single stage. I tend to load for a few weeks (or a month) at a time, maybe a few hundred rounds, and then walk away from it for awhile.

One last thing, if using the Hornady LnL or the Lee Breechlock you will need a bushing for each die that you use. That should be factored into your cost as well, although you can get bushings as you need them. I can't speak for the Lee bushings, but I've found the Hornady bushings are usually cheaper (per bushing) when buying the larger packages.

chris

I currently have no operational progressives. I started out in the sixties with what was, at that time, the Rolls Royce of loaders, a Starr progressive. Got a second a couple years later. Loaded commercially until 79 when dad passed and had to sell out.
Since, I bought two Pro1000s. Garbage, as far as the priming system as was a Loadmaster I got later.
My advice is to do what my brother did and go Dillon. Buy once, cry once. Friends have RCBS and Hornady(?) and have no complaints.
All my progressive loading now is for shotshells and I have a MEC 9000 and two Grabbers. Wish Lee would look at other’s priming systems.
I use a Lee hand primer.
I’ll admit that my “scars” have kept me from researching the new Lees so maybe there have been improvements.
Good luck.
A progressive, if you don’t watch it, can load you a lot of bad ammo in a short time. Can load a lot of good stuff if you are attentive.

I'm using the Pro 4000 and Hornady LNL-AP.
I load between 6000-8000 rounds a year of pistol/revolver rounds on these two presses. I load a large volume at a time and leave the presses sit for sometimes a couple months. Nothing gets sticky or sticking on them at all. They just work when I go to use them again.

I'm not getting drawn into an argument on which press is best, as said in this thread already, they all will work.

I bought a Pro6000 and it had two many problems with it, had to send it back for a refund. I may try again in a year or so after Lee has time to get all their ducks in a row. The one I bought, the entire carrier fell off the ram in the first 10 minutes of trying to use it.
I'm not saying they all do this, but mine did and the priming system was a train wreck, probably related to the carrier falling off, so it went back for a refund.
I'm still hopeful Lee gets their problems ironed out on this press.

My 4000 is one of my favorite presses and the one I use for .357 mag. I have several shell plates for it.

If you don't prime on the press, or don't mind Lee's safety prime, the 4000 is a good little press but don't try to load rifle loads on it. The case feeder doesn't play well with .223s and only short rifle rounds will fit in it and work with auto progressive function . You can still drop case one at a time through the provided hole in the die plate when the ram is up. I don't know what all calibers will fit in it if you take out the auto indexing bar and turn the shell plate by hand. I think it to light of a press for larger rifle any ways.

It is a no problem press for pistol/revolver but I don't prime on it. I just choose not to because I want the priming to be part of the operation, not stopping to do a separate function for each case while I'm loading.

My Hornady had to have only 3 mods in the 13 yrs I've had it. It's worked really well for me.
I have never tried a Dillon, the parts for caliber changes are very expensive and that was what swayed me to the Hornady to begin with.
We have to buy different shell plates for all the progressive presses so they cancel each other out as an extra expense of one press over the other.

They are both very good presses and I always thought that the reason most bench rest shooters and precision rifle shooters swing toward Dillon is because Dillon offers several different semi and progressive presses to suit one's needs and Hornady only offers one.

That's the problem with Hornady's progressive as I see it? They are like Henry Ford's model T. They only make one model of progressive press, you either like it or you don't. Dillon makes several models to choose from that fits different needs, and they are also very good presses, so they grab a large share of the market.

Don't think it has a lot to do with quality. My Hornady has been really reliable, it just keeps working.
I had a small learning curve when I first bought it but if you look at it as setting up one station at a time, it's really not hard at all. Start out with one caliber and get it down before try to set up a different caliber.
Before long you will be doing change overs in short order.

They both have the same warranty and will replace any defective or broken part even if you broke it and it was your fault.
The last time, (and first time) I called Hornady with a question on my LNL-AP was just recently, they wanted to send me a shipping label to send it in so they could go all through it at their expense and replace any worn parts, and send it back to me for free.
I didn't need too, or want to do that, but it is nice that Hornady and Dillon will do that for the original owners of these presses, even after 13 years of use.

As far as Lee's warranty goes, all I will say is that in the past when I called them about different issues with their presses, all they did was argue with me and tell me I didn't know how to reload, but their attitude seems to have changed with the introduction of the Pro 6000 and all its problems and I think a change in some of the management.
I bought a Pro 6000 and the whole carrier assy fell off of it in 10 minutes of trying to use it. Then the priming system wouldn't work at all and did nothing but jam up. Then I find out through LiveLifes thread that Lee said the press has to be put in a jig and the loose set screw/ collet assy that holds the carrier in place has to be torqued down to 80 ftlbs and if it isn't lined up correctly, that priming system will be out of time with the shell plate.
I sent it back for a refund, I work on 500,000 sqft of machines, 12 hrs a day 4 days a week, and don't want to work on them when I get home so I sent it back for a refund.

But, the fact that they are willing to work with us on a live forum to fix their new flagship is very promising to me. I am anxious to see how the Pro 6000 works out in about 6 more months. If that gigantic list that LiveLife has in his thread on how to make it work, is fixed by Lee I will look at it again. I think it will be a dandy press and may end up being Lee's best selling progressive press of all time.

I have 2 presses a Lyman Crusher and a T-Mag. I have no need for speed, and enjoy the reloading process in itself. So I take it slow and easy.

I have been considering a progressive as well for 9mm. My Classic turret is wonderful for all of my rimmed revolver stuff (.38spl through .500S&W) but trying to keep up with the amount of 9mm my wife and I go through is a bit tedious on the turret press. The Lee six pack has been very intriguing to me.

Stefan A said:

In regards to the Lee, how can I know that I’m getting one with the latest fixes? Do they take back the bad ones from retailers and replace with updated presses? Or are dealers trying to offload the previous presses? Is there a way to tell?

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I reckon if that's a major concern you might want to look at a different brand

If you use the Lee safety prime system on your turret press, and are comfortable with it, then the Lee 4 station Auto Breech Lock is a good economical option. If not, consider the Lee 6000 or the Hornady or a Dillon.

If I were to buy a progressive, I would buy a Dillon. I am a firm believer in "buy once, cry once." This is my only hobby and no one is going to throw my cash into my coffin.

This thread is like a what oil to use in my motorcycle thread on another website I know of...

Buy once, cry once

Stefan A said:

In regards to the Lee, how can I know that I’m getting one with the latest fixes? Do they take back the bad ones from retailers and replace with updated presses? Or are dealers trying to offload the previous presses? Is there a way to tell?

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There is no way of knowing. That's why I want to wait 6 months and see how they are doing then, but if you don't want to wait, several of our members have them and can help you with any problems that come along. I believe mine was and exception to what was being sent out to most everyone else.

Lee won't take a press back that you bought from someone else, I sent mine back to Midsouth Shooters Supply who I purchased it from. They took it back with no problems and refunded my money. They just wanted an explanation of what was wrong with it. I sent an explanation and pictures.
If you had it for weeks or months and decided you wanted to return it, I don't know what would happen. You will probably have to deal with Lee on getting it repaired.

Lee will not leave you hanging with a press that doesn't work.

You will call them if you have problems with it later on. If the problem can't be resolved over the phone they will issue a return slip and you will then send it to them for repair so save the box if you buy one. If it's right away after receiving it, I'm sure they will cover all costs but if you have it for a while, then call about it, they will usually make you pay the shipping.
I am still interested in owning one, but for me, I have 3 progressive already, so I can wait for the smoke to clear before looking at it again.

Stefan A said:

In regards to the Lee, how can I know that I’m getting one with the latest fixes?

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Six Pack Pro/Pro 6000 kits have been in demand since product launch with many vendors being sold out and likely when you order now, newest press with updates will ship (If caliber kit you want is out of stock, check back in a few days as kits are assembled and shipped on a daily basis) - https://www.titanreloading.com/prod...resses/lee-six-pack-pro/lee-six-pack-pro-kit/

Based on my email exchange with Calvin from Lee Precision, current presses being shipped should have:

• Updated longer grey primer slider with narrower attached spring end
• Updated priming pin that is "self cleaning"
• Updated primer chute/trough with larger pin

If your press doesn't have the updated parts, you can contact customer service to obtain the updated parts.

And latest email from Calvin indicated the new inline bullet feeder with rotary magazine (That was beta tested by me) is currently being shipped with aluminum threaded cap which will be replaced with polymer/plastic production unit to work with rotary magazine (So the bullet feeder die will work with other inline tube magazine). So if you are interested, I would inquire about getting pre-production unit with customer service (Likely will pay full MSRP) or wait until they are available from vendors with production threaded cap at lower retail pricing.

GE-Mini-Gun said:

gifbohane said:

If I were to buy a progressive, I would buy a Dillon. I am a firm believer in "buy once, cry once."

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Buy once, cry once

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Good advice.

If my reloading mentor had not introduced me to both Dillon 550 and Lee Pro 1000 to find that I could produce USPSA "match grade" rounds with consistent OALs on both presses and my match pistols couldn't tell the difference, I would have never considered Pro 1000. Because I decided to "choose" Pro 1000 due to auto-index of shellplate, I just worked on the presses until I worked out the issues to resolution ... But having been raised by an electrician father who believed in fixing things until they worked, I did the same for my Pro 1000s ... But just thought that was normal.

Had I not used Pro 1000s, Classic Turret and ABLP/Pro 4000 successfully to load around 700,000 rounds with consistency of OAL myth busted, I would have remained a Dillon snob and would suggest Dillon 650/750 was the only progressive press I would recommend.

Stefan A said:

In regards to the Lee, how can I know that I’m getting one with the latest fixes? Do they take back the bad ones from retailers and replace with updated presses? Or are dealers trying to offload the previous presses? Is there a way to tell?

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Why do you think you need a progressive press? How much ammo do you need to load every week/month??
The rate of production is highly exaggerated You need auto case and bullet feeders to do that

If you were to buy a new car, would you buy one the first year it came out??

These threads usually turn BLUE and the buy once cry once mantra.

Get a Dillon or a Hornady

I felt the need also and bough a Hornady LnL but still like and use the LCT more.

Rule3 said:

These threads usually turn BLUE and the buy once cry once mantra.

I felt the need also and bough a Hornady LnL but still like and use the LCT more.

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tightgroup tiger said:

Lee will not leave you hanging with a press that doesn't work ... I am still interested in owning one, but for me, I have 3 progressive already, so I can wait for the smoke to clear before looking at it again.

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Having used/compared various Dillon progressives with Lee progressives, Six Pack Pro/Pro 6000 kit is a significant departure from previous generations of Lee progressive presses.

Of course the Dillon presses have been the reference standard like Ferrari/Porsche for sports cars. But SPP/Pro 6000 is like Tesla EV/C8 Corvette being different and superior in some/many ways.

Keep in mind that SPP/Pro 6000 is the flagship press Lee Precision released to address issues of previous generations of presses like the discontinued Load-Master and Pro 1000 and as demonstrated by early production updating of parts, seems to be committed to operational reliability (Calvin mentioned that next generation of Pro 1000 will have similar primer feed system like SPP).

If you take a step back and look at the features/enhancements of SPP, it may become more obvious that Lee Precision is destined to corner the progressive market, and I really believe SPP/Pro 6000 kits will outsell all the other progressive presses combined, worldwide:

• Six stations for more die option
• Same ram/linkage/lever from .50 cal BMG press to load largest magnum rifle cartriges
• Die bushings for quick and easy caliber change
• Same priming rod/pin for both small/large primers (easier caliber change)
• Easy small/large primer guide swap (fast caliber change)
• Self cleaning priming rod/pin
• Self cleaning primer slider channel/trough (with rectangle/round holes)
• Updated primer chute/trough with larger pin for reliable primer feed
• Primer flip tray for fast refilling of primers without using primer pick up tubes
• Bottle adapter with Auto Drum to use factory 1 pound powder containers (eliminates transferring powder)
• Can also use red powder hopper with lid (if desired)
• Auto adjusting shellplate index
• Index pin through shellplate hole to ensure alignment of primer pocket with primer (to reliably seat even foreign Metric primers)
• Inline bullet feeder with rotary magazine
• Incredible $339 retail pricing and available now ($1400 FA FX-10 is still MIA)
• Made in USA

Many, many different opinions from people that have actually used these products, very valuable information. I have no experience with Lee except for their bullet molds, so I’ll keep my comments to “is a progressive worth it?”

My first loading experience was in the late 70s, MEC 600jr 12 gauge. I still use this press and for the last 9 months I’ve been shooting 400-600 rounds a month. 20 years ago I had the opportunity to buy a MEC 650 Grabber plus $400 worth of wads, powder, primers. I jumped on it. The Grabber was mounted to a piece of plywood with a pillowcase over it as a dust cover. It still sits that way! Every time I need to load a large volume of skeet loads, I think I should set it up. Then I think I could have 3-4 boxes done before I get it set up so I start pulling the 600jr lever.

I started loading rifle cartridges in the mid 80s with a Rockchucker, still do except .223.

Fast forward to 3 years ago. I had stockpiled sufficient handgun ammo for every I owned. Then I bought a .380. The LGS sold me 3 boxes, then I couldn’t find anymore. I bought dies, brass, projectiles. I started loading in my garage, teens outside, a Mr Heater blowing on me. I was miserable. Handling those tiny cases with frozen fingers wasn’t fun. I had a 12.5’x18.5 dirt floor room with a door into it. When the house was built 30 years before I envisioned a reloading room. But it had been a mouse infested storage space that entire time. But 2 nights of loading in freezing conditions, tiny cartridges motivated me and 3 months later I had an insulated, heated loading room.

About the same time I was on one of my weekly pilgrimages to hit 3 big box stores an hour away. They had seven Dillion 550Cs. The salesman told me that the previous week 9 Dillion 750s sold out in one day. So I made a panic purchase. But I was intimidated so that press sat in the trunk of the car for 3 months.

I knew nothing about it. But with excellent instructions and an hour of my time I got it set up. It came with 9mm shell plate. Another hour I was pumping out 9mm rounds I took outside and tested in 4 guns. They all functioned; fed, shot, ejected, locked back when mag was empty. I was happy.

Then I learned I needed a new shell plate for each caliber. A new tool plate if I didn’t want to change dies and powder drop. And a powder drop for each shell plate. Simple math, it was gonna cost me $150 per caliber but I would be able to change in about 3 minutes. So I bought 1 set, she’ll plate, tool plate and powder drop each month until I had one for everything I load.

Hindsight? I should have done it sooner! The only thing I load on it I emphasized accuracy with is the .223. I wanted one load that would function and have reasonable accuracy in 4 separate rifles. A copy of the M185 pretty much did that.

I’ll never load my other centerfire rifles with it. But for bulk ammo, a progressive is a “no brainer” for me. I have developed some self defense loads on it for a couple of calibers whose accuracy is better than I expected. I use factory ammo for CCW because of liability/litigation reasons but if that dried up, I would have no issues carrying these.

Summary. It ain’t cheap, the Dillion anyways. But I have had zero issues with it. Because it’s what I started with, I prefer the manual indexing. If cheap handgun ammo was readily available, I would never have bought it. But now I never have to worry about ammo shortages ever again, nor component shortages either based on my current usage.

“Man, I wish I had bought a Lee instead of a Dillon”
…said no one ever.

Otto said:

“Man, I wish I had bought a Lee instead of a Dillon” … said no one ever.

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Same could be said for Electric Vehicle vs many production "muscle" cars for 1/4 mile drag times for decades until Tesla came to market and started beating cherished ETs on drag strips because Tesla didn't exist before (And this coming from "old school" C5 Z06 owner who now desires EV for next retirement vehicle instead of C8 Corvette ... Similarly my BIL who taught automotive at college was shocked when our 3.0L Ram EcoDiesel outperformed his 7.3L Ford Power Stroke while getting 27 MPG ... Technological improvement is something).

Six Pack Pro/Pro 6000 was released just last year and already surpassed many features of five station progressive presses that were considered the "old standard" starting with six stations, using same rod/pin to prime both small/large primers and being able to screw factory one pound containers directly to powder measure, etc.

If I had to choose only one press now to reload several pistol/rifle calibers between Dillon 550 without auto-index/case feeder and Lee Pro 6000 kit with case collator and inline bullet feeder/rotary magazine ... I would actually choose the Pro 6000 kit based on 6 stations, auto-index/case feeder and ease of caliber change (And soon to be released bullet feeder die/rotary magazine would be gravy).