Mossberg MVP Patrol - 7.62x51 - Ammunition suggestions?

American Finn

American Finn

Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Messages
195
Location
Northern Michigan
Good evening THR, I thank you ahead of time for your suggestions and assistance.

Last year I purchased a Mossberg MVP in the spring; life got in the way and I wasn't able to get out to the range with it until mid-summer. The first time I went to fire it my pattern (yes, I say pattern) was almost 10" at 100 yards. I was using GGG (Lithuanian) surplus M80 Ball that I had heard good reviews online. This was perplexing; I had the rifle mounted in a bench rest, the scope was mounted by a gunsmith, and everything seemed right and tight. I chalked it up to a bad day of shooting and returned to the range about a month later; the same results with the GGG ammo. I had also purchased some Winchester M80 with the same results; I decided to bring the rifle to my local gunsmith for his opinion and to have the rifle returned to Mossberg for warranty work (the shells weren't ejecting). My gunsmith offered to test fire it as well before returning it.

He pretty much had the same results with my supplied ammo; he tried some Norma 150gr 308 Soft Points and the groups shrunk to just over 3" at 100 yards. After receiving the rifle back from Mossberg (they fixed the ejector??? Work order didn't say and I didn't call them; it works now) I took it out to the range again. I tried some Winchester Super X 150gr 308 and experienced 4" groups at 100 yards, then some Hornady American Whitetail 150gr PSP 308 and the groups shrunk to right around 3" and finally Federal Power Shok 150gr 308 brought it down to 2 3/4" (the picture of the 10 shot group is attached). Now, I have fired all of this ammo from a bench rest to take me out of the equation and the scope is a brand new Leupold, everything is right and tight with the mount, etc.

My question to all of you is if you have owned this rifle have you had better experiences with another brand of ammunition? Considering that 308 can still be a bit finicky for me to find locally and runs about $35 per box of 20 I would rather ask around then purchase more ammunition to chase better groups; I also need to stick with ammo that is available locally so anything exotic is out of the question. Should I expect better accuracy from this rifle or is this as good as it gets?

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Wow, I have two Mossberg Patriot rifles and they will shoot bug hole size groups... That rifle either has the stock improperly inleted, or the action screws aren't torqued properly or something else like that.
 
270OKIE said:
Wow, I have two Mossberg Patriot rifles and they will shoot bug hole size groups... That rifle either has the stock improperly inleted, or the action screws aren't torqued properly or something else like that.
Click to expand...

Besides that... ^^^ ... I would add...

1) Check to make sure the actual sight rail is mounted correctly and it's level. Savage had an issue for a while where the flats on the receiver were not level with each other, skewing the sight rail.

2) Maybe try a heavier or lighter bullet weight. My Savage model 10 does NOT like anything 150grn'ish. Strange but true. It has never liked 150grn FMJ surplus, although not to the extent of your Mossy.

3) I'm not familiar with the MVP, but as Okie mentions, the Savage with the Accustock requires specific torque values to the action screws.
 
Charlie98 said:
Besides that... ^^^ ... I would add...

1) Check to make sure the actual sight rail is mounted correctly and it's level. Savage had an issue for a while where the flats on the receiver were not level with each other, skewing the sight rail.

2) Maybe try a heavier or lighter bullet weight. My Savage model 10 does NOT like anything 150grn'ish. Strange but true. It has never liked 150grn FMJ surplus, although not to the extent of your Mossy.

3) I'm not familiar with the MVP, but as Okie mentions, the Savage with the Accustock requires specific torque values to the action screws.
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I don't bother torquing much on my guns but the proto comes out for the action screws. The two screw actions don't seem to be near as sensitive as the three screw...
 
Something is very wrong with your rifle. We have a couple Patriots and an MVP Predator .223, and I've built several Sussurrus integrally suppressed rifles on MVP Predator .308s. All of them are sub-MOA rifles at 100 yards. The little .223 actually gets down to .7 MOA @100 with 50 gr. varmint loads.

I would check the usual suspects, make sure everything is tight. Also, try another known good optic. If having gone over all the fasteners and swapped scopes you're still having the issue, tell Mossberg you want the barrel replaced.
 
American Finn said:
Considering that 308 can still be a bit finicky for me to find locally and runs about $35 per box of 20 I would rather ask around then purchase more ammunition to chase better groups; I also need to stick with ammo that is available locally so anything exotic is out of the question. ]
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AIM Surplus has Prvi .308 ammo, 200 rounds of 180g soft point, for $180, or $18 a box, with free shipping.

They also have Prvi 168g HP match ammo for $23 a box.

$35 a box seems excessive.
 
Speedo66 said:
AIM Surplus has Prvi .308 ammo, 200 rounds of 180g soft point, for $180, or $18 a box, with free shipping.

They also have Prvi 168g HP match ammo for $23 a box.

$35 a box seems excessive.
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Privi is garbage... standard privi ball vs privi 168 match vs hand loads. 10 shot groups. 167415583619845155363216804275.jpg
 

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Charlie98 said:
Besides that... ^^^ ... I would add...

1) Check to make sure the actual sight rail is mounted correctly and it's level. Savage had an issue for a while where the flats on the receiver were not level with each other, skewing the sight rail.

2) Maybe try a heavier or lighter bullet weight. My Savage model 10 does NOT like anything 150grn'ish. Strange but true. It has never liked 150grn FMJ surplus, although not to the extent of your Mossy.

3) I'm not familiar with the MVP, but as Okie mentions, the Savage with the Accustock requires specific torque values to the action screws.
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Hmm interesting your 308 bolt action doesn't like M80 spec loads... My 308 (DPMS pattern) AR10 loves Saltech Swiss made "M80" spec ammo. I need to find more as it's brass and has sealed primers!
 
Thank you all for your responses and advice. A few takeaways:
  • My gunsmith checked all of the action screws, the scope and the mounts. Everything is torqued to spec and seems good to go; he even checked it after receiving it back from Mossberg (he handled the warranty return for me and was the go-between with Mossberg; my gunsmith has worked on several of my firearms and this guy knows his stuff and does great work; I trust he did everything right). I double checked it returning from the range and everything still seemed tight.
  • Both my smith and I thought it might be the scope too; we did shoot it without the scope on it and we had the same results; we ruled out the scope. It is a brand new Leupold VX Freedom 1.5x4x20; the glass is clear.
  • As far as the barrel being clean, it has had maybe 100 rounds through it; I thought maybe it had some jacket material too so I used Hoppes Copper Remover (this stuff works great for me) and there wasn't any excessive gunk or copper in the barrel.
  • Where I live in northern Michigan...yep, look to spend about $35 per box of hunting ammo; hell, .30-30 was $31 at the local sporting goods store. I am looking at getting back into reloading (I did as a kid; long story why I don't anymore) just for this very reason of ammo availabilty and price.
  • It boggles my mind why this rifle doesn't like M80 ball; I really bought it to be more of a backpacking/hiking rifle and really wanted it to be able to shoot something inexpensive/easy to find. I don't mind having to use regular hunting ammo though; can always use it to take a deer.
  • And I agree; this rifle should be capable of at least 1 to 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards.
I'm going to go to the local store and see what else is on the shelf; I'll try another 150gr load and perhaps a heavier weight and see what that does. If this doesn't work I'll go back to my gunsmith and get this sent back to Mossberg. I don't know what else to do at this point. It will take me a few weeks to get back out; we have a snow storm right now and my son's birthday is this weekend. I will give a report when I have a chance.
 
American Finn said:
Thank you all for your responses and advice. A few takeaways:
  • My gunsmith checked all of the action screws, the scope and the mounts. Everything is torqued to spec and seems good to go; he even checked it after receiving it back from Mossberg (he handled the warranty return for me and was the go-between with Mossberg; my gunsmith has worked on several of my firearms and this guy knows his stuff and does great work; I trust he did everything right). I double checked it returning from the range and everything still seemed tight.
  • Both my smith and I thought it might be the scope too; we did shoot it without the scope on it and we had the same results; we ruled out the scope. It is a brand new Leupold VX Freedom 1.5x4x20; the glass is clear.
  • As far as the barrel being clean, it has had maybe 100 rounds through it; I thought maybe it had some jacket material too so I used Hoppes Copper Remover (this stuff works great for me) and there wasn't any excessive gunk or copper in the barrel.
  • Where I live in northern Michigan...yep, look to spend about $35 per box of hunting ammo; hell, .30-30 was $31 at the local sporting goods store. I am looking at getting back into reloading (I did as a kid; long story why I don't anymore) just for this very reason of ammo availabilty and price.
  • It boggles my mind why this rifle doesn't like M80 ball; I really bought it to be more of a backpacking/hiking rifle and really wanted it to be able to shoot something inexpensive/easy to find. I don't mind having to use regular hunting ammo though; can always use it to take a deer.
  • And I agree; this rifle should be capable of at least 1 to 1 1/2" groups at 100 yards.
I'm going to go to the local store and see what else is on the shelf; I'll try another 150gr load and perhaps a heavier weight and see what that does. If this doesn't work I'll go back to my gunsmith and get this sent back to Mossberg. I don't know what else to do at this point. It will take me a few weeks to get back out; we have a snow storm right now and my son's birthday is this weekend. I will give a report when I have a chance.
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I think at this point you have enough evidence to just send it back to Mossberg and have them test fire it there in Eagle Pass TX and see what they say... they should say the same thing as you and your gunsmith... I'm guessing they don't test fire every gun that leaves their factory?
 
American Finn said:
@270OKIE I think you have a point and thinking about this further I'm just going to give Mossberg a shout and talk to customer service. Let's see what they say and go from there. I will give an update as soon as I have some feedback.
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You should have a ticket from the last time you sent it in so give them that Info to them and that you are still having the same issue. Keep us updated on your experience!
 
American Finn said:
I'm going to go to the local store and see what else is on the shelf; I'll try another 150gr load and perhaps a heavier weight and see what that does.
Click to expand...

My barometer in .308 is 168grn Federal Gold Medal Match... see if you can find a box of that. If it can't shoot that well, there is something wrong.

As an aside... I agree with AJC... Prvi 168grn 'Match' ammo is very inconsistent, I would not buy that in lieu of FGMM, or another equivalent (like Hornady, etc.) Having said that, I really like Prvi brass.


270OKIE said:
Hmm interesting your 308 bolt action doesn't like M80 spec loads... My 308 (DPMS pattern) AR10 loves Saltech Swiss made "M80" spec ammo.
Click to expand...

My 16" M1a shoots M80 better than my 24" Savage bolt gun... that's how bad it is. I really need to try some better 150grn bullets... just to see if it's actually an anomaly with my barrel and 150's, or just that the rifle is very sensitive to quality bullets.

I've worked through a LOT of surplus and new manufacture M80 and M80-clone loads... the Prvi 145grn FMJ load is my favorite. Reasonably accurate, yes, but as I mentioned... I get that really good Prvi brass to reload, too. Win-win. And... yes... I'd take Prvi over LC.
 
I do have an update to share; I just got off the phone with Mossberg Customer Service in Eagle Pass. I explained everything to the rep I spoke to and was advised that this rifle has only a 16.25" barrel and that is its accuracy potential; he said pretty much all scout type rifles will have similar accuracy potential. So, in other words, it is what it is.

What else can I do at this point? He said when it was in for service previously they did test fire it and everything is within specifications. I suppose, according to Mossberg, the rifle is performing to their specifications. Even if I get another barrel will that help matters?

Frankly, I think I will try some other types of ammunition when I have the spare change and time. If I can get this rifle down to about 2" groups I will call it good.
 
American Finn said:
I do have an update to share; I just got off the phone with Mossberg Customer Service in Eagle Pass. I explained everything to the rep I spoke to and was advised that this rifle has only a 16.25" barrel and that is its accuracy potential; he said pretty much all scout type rifles will have similar accuracy potential. So, in other words, it is what it is.

What else can I do at this point? He said when it was in for service previously they did test fire it and everything is within specifications. I suppose, according to Mossberg, the rifle is performing to their specifications. Even if I get another barrel will that help matters?

Frankly, I think I will try some other types of ammunition when I have the spare change and time. If I can get this rifle down to about 2" groups I will call it good.
Click to expand...
Uh, that's BS.
Edit, if this is really how they treat their customers, I'll stop recommending their firearms to people... Which is a darn shame cause my two Patriots are super accurate rifles with factory ammo and handloads.
Double edit, a 2in group at 100 yards with Federal hunting ammo is horrible and is not up to standard for that ammo. The 270 Federal Power Shok 150gr ammo I've shot will literally go in or touch one single hole at 25 yards.
Triple edit, just to do a sanity check I used Bergers stability calculator and looked up the specs for the Federal Power Shok .308 150gr bullet and put in a velocity of 2600 with a 1:10 twist and it is extremely stable and so it's not the bullet itself that is the issue so idk how else to test your barrel other than seeing it in person.

Here's a free tech tip, does a dollar bill slide all the way down the barrel between the stock?
 
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How many of you “moa” shooters have actually shot 10-round 1MOA groups with your rifles? I see one person above.

if you cherry pick the best 3 or best 5 shots from the OP’s target, they look good. I’m not saying there’s nothing wrong with his rifle. But I’m also saying try some good match ammo rather than garbage M80 or hunting stuff before you write off the rifle.
 
@270OKIE Unfortunately yes, that is Mossberg's response. They weren't nasty to me at all on the phone; I won't say the conversation had a negative overtone but that is in fact what they told me.

Yes, the barrel is floated correctly; it isn't touching the stock and everything looks good.

@1KPerDay I'm going to find something else to try in it. I have had great luck with Federal ammo but am not brand loyal; let's see what else is available at the big box sporting goods store in my town. Some of their 308 went on sale according to the website; lucky me!!! :)
 
American Finn said:
@270OKIE Unfortunately yes, that is Mossberg's response. They weren't nasty to me at all on the phone; I won't say the conversation had a negative overtone but that is in fact what they told me.

Yes, the barrel is floated correctly; it isn't touching the stock and everything looks good.

@1KPerDay I'm going to find something else to try in it. I have had great luck with Federal ammo but am not brand loyal; let's see what else is available at the big box sporting goods store in my town. Some of their 308 went on sale according to the website; lucky me!!! :)
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If you can, get a box of Federal Gold Medal Match 175gr SMK ammo and shoot it at 25 yards. If THAT still don't group worth a crap then I don't know what else to try...
 
1KPerDay said:
How many of you “moa” shooters have actually shot 10-round 1MOA groups with your rifles? I see one person above.

if you cherry pick the best 3 or best 5 shots from the OP’s target, they look good. I’m not saying there’s nothing wrong with his rifle. But I’m also saying try some good match ammo rather than garbage M80 or hunting stuff before you write off the rifle.
Click to expand...

Groups of 3 to sight in, 5 to verify zero, 10 to measure precision.

Yes, the little MVP Predator .223 will pull of .7" 10 shot groups @100 yards from sand bags.

Our 7mm-08 integrally suppressed Patriot hovers right around MOA with handloads using quality bullets, but closer to 2" with PRVI 150 gr hollowpoints. I concur with the above post about PRVI bullets. I have never shot factory ammo in this rifle.

Our .300 win mag Patriot is also roughly MOA with both factory ammo and handloads. I have never taken the time to really develop loads for it or use match bullets, this is just run of the mill 180 gr. pills like Hornady Interlock or Sierra Gameking.

ETA:

I had to cut it short earlier, but wanted to add that the .308 MVP Predators (18" barrels, BTW) we've built into Susurrus were on par with the Patriots. They haven't quite matched the .223, might have got real lucky with that one, but the Mossbergs in general I'd confidently say can be expected to deliver around MOA with good ammo.

None of them did well with ball ammo or commercially labeled equivalents, which is also true of every other rifle I've ever used. I have a Savage 10 LE and a Remington 700 Magpul Enhanced in .308, as well as a couple ARs. All of them can shoot, but I don't know that any of them have held under 2" with M80. Likewise, M193 and M855 in 5.56/.223 guns has never shown me anything close to 1 MOA, and I've had .223s that would make bug hole groups with handloads. My most accurate one currently, a .223 Wylde chambered 1:8 22" bull barrel AR, is capable of the same kind of accuracy as the MVP .223, but with ball ammo, it's minute of tennis ball at 100.

All of that is to say, Mossberg really needs to replace the barrel on OP's rifle. He's done all he can do, and the suggestion that "it's all that can be expected" because the barrel is short is absurd. If anything, short barreled sporters shoot better, less whip. The case needs to be escalated beyond the CS lugnut who handled his call.
 
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I have a MVP in 223 that is a 1 MOA rifle using 75 grain Hornady BTHP. Same rifle is terrible using 77 grain MK 262. Some rifles only like the specs of certain loads. What I have found is surplus M80 ball from overseas is generally poor quality ammo. Even US M80 ball is pretty bad through a quality rifle like a M24. M80 is what is linked up to go into machine guns. Another test/control measure is to let someone else who has good fundamentals shoot some groups.
 
MachIVshooter said:
He's done all he can do, and the suggestion that "it's all that can be expected" because the barrel is short is absurd.
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I would agree. Short barrels have their drawbacks, but poor accuracy is not one of them, necessarily. Following Mossberg's logic, I should send my 24" Savage back to the factory because it shoots M80 poorly? ...because it doesn't have the disadvantage of a short barrel?

I would find a box of FGMM, put 5 rounds on paper... and keep the target. Have someone else put 5 rounds out... keep that target, too. Then try Mossberg CS again.
 
MachIVshooter said:
Groups of 3 to sight in, 5 to verify zero, 10 to measure precision.

Yes, the little MVP Predator .223 will pull of .7" 10 shot groups @100 yards from sand bags.

Our 7mm-08 integrally suppressed Patriot hovers right around MOA with handloads using quality bullets, but closer to 2" with PRVI 150 gr hollowpoints. I concur with the above post about PRVI bullets. I have never shot factory ammo in this rifle.

Our .300 win mag Patriot is also roughly MOA with both factory ammo and handloads. I have never taken the time to really develop loads for it or use match bullets, this is just run of the mill 180 gr. pills like Hornady Interlock or Sierra Gameking.

ETA:

I had to cut it short earlier, but wanted to add that the .308 MVP Predators (18" barrels, BTW) we've built into Susurrus were on par with the Patriots. They haven't quite matched the .223, might have got real lucky with that one, but the Mossbergs in general I'd confidently say can be expected to deliver around MOA with good ammo.

None of them did well with ball ammo or commercially labeled equivalents, which is also true of every other rifle I've ever used. I have a Savage 10 LE and a Remington 700 Magpul Enhanced in .308, as well as a couple ARs. All of them can shoot, but I don't know that any of them have held under 2" with M80. Likewise, M193 and M855 in 5.56/.223 guns has never shown me anything close to 1 MOA, and I've had .223s that would make bug hole groups with handloads. My most accurate one currently, a .223 Wylde chambered 1:8 22" bull barrel AR, is capable of the same kind of accuracy as the MVP .223, but with ball ammo, it's minute of tennis ball at 100.

All of that is to say, Mossberg really needs to replace the barrel on OP's rifle. He's done all he can do, and the suggestion that "it's all that can be expected" because the barrel is short is absurd. If anything, short barreled sporters shoot better, less whip. The case needs to be escalated beyond the CS lugnut who handled his call.
Click to expand...
What's funny is my current new AR15 build which is a Bull 24in 1:8 223 Wylde DMR will shoot multiple magazines of "crappy" cheap m193 ball in basically the same darn spot at 70 yards. But 77gr Israeli and 75gr Hornady match ammo group about two inches at that distance. Wierd.
 
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With a rifle like that shooting good ammunition,I would be happy if it would stay inside 1.5 MOA at 100 yards,10 shot groups.By good ammunition,I'm talking something with match grade bullets in good brass.I always start a 308 out with 168 grain Sierra Match Kings.If a rifle won't shoot them reasonably well,it probably won't shoot anything well.Several companies load them in factory ammo.Maybe a deep cleaning with Iosso paste would help.Sometimes a barrel's a little rough and needs a little something to smooth it out and get it to settle down.
 
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