If you were to design a new cartridge for concealed carry!

wcwhitey

wcwhitey

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Been thinking about this a bit and was wondering what thoughts everyone has on this. My thoughts are as follows:

For a revolver a .32 Cartridge that falls between the .32 H&R which has been sort of loaded down and left behind by ammo makers and the .327 Federal. A round that will consistently do over 1000 fps in a 2” J Frame size revolver with a 85/90 Grain bullet. 6 or even better 7 shot. My contention is the .327 is a bit harsh and pressure too high resulting in too much recoil for a .32 for a fast shooting revolver.

A .32 Cartridge longer than the .32 ACP but shorter and milder than the .30 Super Carry for Sub Compact pistols. Similar ballistics as the revolver cartridge above. Enough for reliable expansion, breaking that 200 foot pound barrier out of an LCP size gun (or just a bit larger) allowing for an extra round or two. Blowback operation may not be possible nor wanted. Taking advantage of extra capacity over a .380 and ensuring enough velocity for even the most stubborn HP. I think the .30 Super carry but it seems like a big investment for two more rounds and so far the pressure seems a bit high that the size of available guns in my mind seem to be missing the point.
 
49willys said:
I think every cartridge has been done,how about some inovation in bullet design?
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That’s a good point too! I was thinking along the lines of constantly seeing manufacturers trying to get bullets to work from the constraints of SAAMI pressure limits. Often time failing. That it would be easier to design a cartridge around a good bullet making sure it has what it needs to work from its intended platform.
Perfect example I looked and looked for a soft lead SWC-HP design out there for the .32 caliber rounds like .32 Long and .32 H&R. The idea was that we know we can get successful expansion of this type of bullet in .38 Special at 850 fps or better. Problem is in .38 getting to that velocity from a 2” barrel. Now if we had such a bullet weighing 100 grains or
Better I’m .32 H&R we could get to that 850 fps easily. Instead what we get from makers are XTP’s which were designed as controlled expansion bullets from the start. Bullets that will have some expansion but still adequately penetrate. We often get penetration but no expansion at the 900 fps velocities of factory ammo. That particular bullet needs more velocity. It gets it from longer barrels but not 2”.
 
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If I designed a new cartridge, invariably these comments would happen:
"answer looking for a question"
"solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist"
But wait... I could address the beaten cliché of "I carry a 45 because they don't make a 46"
I would make a 46 and then nobody could accurately say that phrase again.
The CDW4ME 46 caliber... Cliché Death Whammy 4ME - 46Whammy for short.
 
I'm still hoping for a .38 (or could be .32) designed for wadcutter length rounds only. Cut the cylinder short to fit just that length and make the entire package smaller/shorter/lighter. There is defensive .38 ammo now made which is flush to the case so that is covered. Yes, I know it is niche to the extreme but many things in the gun world are.
 
Introducing the .33 Entropic Special. The proprietary design powder achieves entropy at a faster rate than any mundane .38 or 9mm. It is designed to reduce velocity at the rate of 500 feet per second every yard it is in flight.
This assures non-lethal capabilities without worries of overpenetration. It is a more modern kinder handgun.
Initial production will be issued to the private security forces of heads of govt., industry, and other major progressive leaders. No more senseless deaths! No messy cleanup!
Coming soon to the local progressive gunshop near you!
 
trackskippy said:
More magic bullets to try and make up for lack of skill. :p
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Not a bad point, no bullet will provide an effective miss! “Assuming” which is dangerous what would you consider optimum? I see all the marketing and hype for this or that new round that is so expensive that practice is inhibited by cost.
 
wcwhitey said:
Not a bad point, no bullet will provide an effective miss! “Assuming” which is dangerous what would you consider optimum? I see all the marketing and hype for this or that new round that is so expensive that practice is inhibited by cost.
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I see plain old 9mm being just fine. Plenty of cheap practice ammo around that duplicates what might be carried, so you can shoot a lot, and if you feel the need to go with a fancier bullet, whatever, but good hits with your practice ammo will still be better than poor hits or misses with any fancy ammo.

Charlie98 said:
Instead of a double-stack 9mm... maybe a tri-stack or quad stack...
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If you can reasonably get it in a duty sized gun, Ill take it! :)

Just because you have the extra ammo, doesnt mean youll waste it. ;)
 
I’m a pretty big fan of the 357sig. I MIGHT be convinced I would enjoy a similar bottlenecked cartridge which puts a 32cal or maybe even 30 cal bullet into a 9mm case, keeping bullets in the 110-120 ballpark, but dramatically exceeding the performance of a 380. Not so dissimilar to 30 super carry.
 
Varminterror said:
I’m a pretty big fan of the 357sig. I MIGHT be convinced I would enjoy a similar bottlenecked cartridge which puts a 32cal or maybe even 30 cal bullet into a 9mm case, keeping bullets in the 110-120 ballpark, but dramatically exceeding the performance of a 380. Not so dissimilar to 30 super carry.
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Sounds like the 30 Luger of over a century ago.

I was a fan of the 357SIG for a while there too, but found that I could get similar performance with +P+ 9mm, and it wasnt tearing up the guns.
 
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The 44 special is pretty close to perfect for me. A 9mm looks good when you compare it to a 22lr, or nothing; not so good when compared to others.
 
I would love a rimmed 10mm auto in a 5 shot sp101 revolver at about 25k psi. Maybe shorten it .050” so regular 10mm auto won’t fit. Basically duplicate 40 S&W ballistics at a little lower pressure.

I would also like to see a 30 super carry shortened to 380 length and pressure lowered to around 30,000 psi for use in locked breach micro pistols like an LCP or LCP max as well as larger pistols like a p365 for people that have trouble shooting a micro 9. I would take mine in an LCP max with 3” barrel and 12 and 15 round mags. 100 grain hollow point at 1050-1100 fps
 
Let's see, for capacity and concealment, what's wanted is a 5x15.

Twice the number as of 9x19 and 78% of the length. 5mm would be 0.196" so we could call it the 20 Super Duper Carry :)
And, as such things are functionally required to keep glossy-paper magazines in print, a 5x20 as the 20magnum :D

For our revolver friends, perhaps a 15x15 as the 60sob :)

But, to really put a pin in it, why not a 10x10 as the 40sc? :)

Now, history tells us that a cartridge length of around 15-20mm gives a good magazine length dimension for wrapping 75th percentile fingers.
History also tells us that a caliber of around 8-10mm seems to be effective to purpose.
Both of those are certainly fulfilled with existing rounds, like the 9x19.
 
CDW4ME said:
If I designed a new cartridge, invariably these comments would happen:
"answer looking for a question"
"solution looking for a problem that doesn't exist"
But wait... I could address the beaten cliché of "I carry a 45 because they don't make a 46"
I would make a 46 and then nobody could accurately say that phrase again.
The CDW4ME 46 caliber... Cliché Death Whammy 4ME - 46Whammy for short.
Click to expand...

But the .460 S&W magnum does exist :)
 
Going back to Elmer Keith's day, we see Industry Magnumization.
The .44 Magnum is hotter than Elmer visualized, as the .41 Magnum is hotter than the last of the Sixgun Cops wanted. Similar for 10mm Norma, 327 Ruger, .30 Super Carry, all more powerful than the leadup discussions said.


There was a guy on 1911forum who was very enthused over a .44 Auto but I figure it foundered for lack of an easy route to a .429" 1911 barrel.
 
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