If you were to design a new cartridge for concealed carry!

A rimmed 38 cal about the same case length as 9x19. Wait, it exits, or did. That would be the old black powder 38 Short Colt. Apparently the basis for the 38 Long Colt and 38 Spl.

So I loaded some up using a fast powder, Starline brass and 125 grn bullets. Had 3 different loads and found one just right for my S&W model 36. Using this case a J frame could become substantially shorter.

I don't have any chronograph data but I'm working on it.

I also don't have any hopes of anyone actually building a revolver for it either.



38.jpg

Short Colt, Long Colt, Special and 357. For comparison.
 
Last edited:
A rimmed 38 cal about the same case length as 9x19. Wait, it exits, or did. That would be the old black powder 38 Short Colt.

There are folks loading .38 SC for USPSA and ICORE for easier reloading.

Federal and Charter Arms had the 9mm Federal, but it
1. Didn't catch on commercially.
2. The Frightened Experts pointed out that it would chamber in a .38 S&W top break but at three times the chamber pressure.
 
A rimmed 38 cal about the same case length as 9x19. Wait, it exits, or did. That would be the old black powder 38 Short Colt. Apparently the basis for the 38 Long Colt and 38 Spl.

So I loaded some up using a fast powder, Starline brass and 125 grn bullets. Had 3 different loads and found one just right for my S&W model 36. Using this case a J frame could become substantially shorter.

I don't have any chronograph data but I'm working on it.

I also don't have any hopes of anyone actually building a revolver for it either.



View attachment 1128667

Short Colt, Long Colt, Special and 357. For comparison.

https://john1911.com/9mm-federal/
 


That's like shooting +P or +P+ 38 Spl. ammo in an old J frame. They weren't designed for those pressures as those were introduced around 1950. I'm not seeing a problem here however. A person needs to know the ammo they put into a firearm.

I understand the liability issues but those exist with more than just the 38 Spl. Lots of other things we use daily have warning labels on them. Nobody seems to get too worked up over those. Put the information on the box of ammo. I'm sure somebody is going to drink Clorox but I doubt they can win a lawsuit if they do because it says not to do that on the container.

Bottom line is 38 S&W is a totally different cartridge than a 38 Short Colt. The case dia. for 38 S&W is .386" where the 38 SC is .379". Yeah, it will fit. So will 25 people in an elevator but they have load limits posted.
 
Last edited:
Been thinking about this a bit and was wondering what thoughts everyone has on this. My thoughts are as follows:

For a revolver a .32 Cartridge that falls between the .32 H&R which has been sort of loaded down and left behind by ammo makers and the .327 Federal. A round that will consistently do over 1000 fps in a 2” J Frame size revolver with a 85/90 Grain bullet. 6 or even better 7 shot. My contention is the .327 is a bit harsh and pressure too high resulting in too much recoil for a .32 for a fast shooting revolver.

A .32 Cartridge longer than the .32 ACP but shorter and milder than the .30 Super Carry for Sub Compact pistols. Similar ballistics as the revolver cartridge above. Enough for reliable expansion, breaking that 200 foot pound barrier out of an LCP size gun (or just a bit larger) allowing for an extra round or two. Blowback operation may not be possible nor wanted. Taking advantage of extra capacity over a .380 and ensuring enough velocity for even the most stubborn HP. I think the .30 Super carry but it seems like a big investment for two more rounds and so far the pressure seems a bit high that the size of available guns in my mind seem to be missing the point.
What's wrong with the good ol' 45ACP or 45 Colt?
Edit, I didn't mean to de rail your point completely off the tracks... Sorry.
I do understand you wanting a different take on the "32" caliber cartridges though. See I wonder if some crazy person could come up with a way to develop barrels and powders to get max velocity out of a short barrel so we could get 357 mag performance out of 9mm cases and then 45 Colt performance out of 45 ACP cases and so on and so forth. But I'm not Albert Einstein lol.
 
Last edited:
What's wrong with the good ol' 45ACP or 45 Colt?
Edit, I didn't mean to de rail your point completely off the tracks... Sorry.
I do understand you wanting a different take on the "32" caliber cartridges though. See I wonder if some crazy person could come up with a way to develop barrels and powders to get max velocity out of a short barrel so we could get 357 mag performance out of 9mm cases and then 45 Colt performance out of 45 ACP cases and so on and so forth. But I'm not Albert Einstein lol.
You didn’t derail anything. All good it’s an opinion question, no wrong ones.
 
We have the .38SC cases, just not a modern gun with shorten cylinder to match.

We could dream of a .44 equivalent. Call it a .44 Short Sauve. Then we’d need a shorten frame and cylinder to match.
 
Everything that can or should be designed already is. Some calibers that were not widely used are mostly gone, some have experienced a pendulum swing in popularity and will come and go.

New cartridges needed? Nah it's already out there unless lead is outlawed then the casing may need re-thinking to accommodate materials like bismuth, copper/zinc or other "non-toxic" alloys.
 
I think 'the' cartridge has already been invented. Developed would be more accurate. The .41 Special. A .41 magnum with the case shortened. The reverse, more or less of the development of the .357 Magnum from the .38 Special. A revolver in a K frame size would be most convenient, probably with five rounds.

Probably never work. Not enough impulsive buyers who actually can hit the target.
 
No one else wants to see a 50 Special? 300 grain bullets at 800 FPS?
That or the other end of the spectrum, a 5mm magnum with 70 grain projectiles at 1500 fps?

40's and 10's are great, but this question is about imagining something new not acceptance of the status quo. :D
 
Frederick Pohl armed corporate security with the .25 Ultra High Velocity in one of his dystopian SF stories.
So we could do to the .25 what the .30 Super Carry did to the .32 family.

The 7mm Pena and 7.9mm VBL were meant to fill the small calibre service pistol niche in Europe, but did not catch on.
 
Back
Top