At last....A double stack Kahr Arms.

My first single stack 9mm is a PM9. Mine is reliable. Interested in what they might have done here, particularly because their original design cue was thin using an offset feed ramp.

I expect that they are going to use a bottle-shaped magazine like 2011 and keep the rest of the gun intact. Also, they're going to add some gimmick mis-feature that gets Dan T.F.G. excited (love him and his channel, but he's not fooling me about Kahr ever again).

About time. Strange they didn’t at least bring a teaser to shot show. I’ve been wondering what’s been going on at Kahr. I don’t think they’ve released a new model in 15 years lol

Wonder if it will still come with the worst magazines in the world.

I'm interested. I have had good luck with steel frame Kahrs. I've only owned one poly, but it has proven reliable as well, although the frame rails are getting a bit chewed up

AustinTX said:

Wonder if it will still come with the worst magazines in the world.

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"auto-disassemble" ?

unclenunzie said:

Interested in what they might have done here, particularly because their original design cue was thin using an offset feed ramp.

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+1 I wonder how close it's going to be to the regular single-stack. I also wonder if it's going to be poly or steel?

I have 3 CW9's, a CM9, and a PM9... so you could say I'm a fan. It's going to take quite a bit for me to bite at a Kahr double-stack, however... light and thin is the hallmark of the Kahr.

AustinTX said:

Wonder if it will still come with the worst magazines in the world.

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The 9mm mags seem pretty reliable, maybe the shorty 6rd mags not so much... it was the .45ACP magazines that were complete garbage. For that matter, I'm not a big fan of the .45ACP Kahrs...

sparkyfender

I've only owned one poly, but it has proven reliable as well, although the frame rails are getting a bit chewed up

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I had a CW40 that had a similar problem, as well as with the polymer frame. Didn't feel like dealing with their customer service so I sold it at a gun show with full disclosure.

I waited sometime before I looked at any more Kahrs but decided to give them another try when they brought out the CM9. Definitely a nice improvement over my previous experience and I have had no problems with it. It's still a part of my CCW rotation but I do have a new SIG P365X which I'm currently getting acquainted with!

bannockburn said:

sparkyfender


I had a CW40 that had a similar problem, as well as with the polymer frame. Didn't feel like dealing with their customer service so I sold it at a gun show with full disclosure.

I waited sometime before I looked at any more Kahrs but decided to give them another try when they brought out the CM9. Definitely, a nice improvement over my previous experience and I have had no problems with it. It's still a part of my CCW rotation but I do have a new SIG P365X which I'm currently getting acquainted with!
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This sounds much like a route I was on. I carried the CM9 for around 4 years until the P365 came around. I purchased that which I carried for a couple years... then a G4 G19 (re)caught my eye, which I carry now. I still carry the CM9 on occasion, still in rotation. Tiny and reliable, kinda hard to beat.

They can keep it! After what I went through with a PM9 and PM 45 no more Monnies Unification guns for me!
I do have the PM 9 and to me it is still the only real POCKET 9mm that fits in docker type shorts pockets. But it took 3 trips to the mothership to fix the darn thing! I gave up on the 45 and sold it back to the shop knowing that it had issues,

I still do not understand the whole craze for mini pocket 9mms and then they want add double stack, extended mags, optics , lasers etc??

I had a CW45. Hated it, was unreliable feeding, and couldn't hit anything with it. Then I had a CW380. I hated it and was unreliable feeding, couldn't hit anything with it, and I had to push it against a bench to rack the slide. Then I bought a P40. Hated it, wouldn't feed anything, side stop didn't work, but I could kinda sorta hit stuff with it if I really concentrated.

This time I decided to dig into though and fix what I didn't like. I shorted the extractor spring and completely reshaped the extractor itself which got it to feed reliably. Then I tig welded a pretravel stop on the sear to reduce the trigger travel to a reasonable distance, shortened the trigger bar to move the break forward about 3/16", and tig welded and overtravel stop on the trigger shoe. Then I filed on the slide and the slide stop till I got that to actually work. I also found that if you cut like 6 coils of the magazine spring and shorten the follower a bit you can fit a seventh round in the magazine and it no longer takes 20 lbs of force to put a round in the mag. After all that the trigger feels almost identical to my Max 9 and its now one of my favorite pistols. Kahr doesn't sell complete guns, they sell parts kits that you have to finish. I just bough a P45 to repeat the whole process again, and I'm also on the lookout for another P40. If you have a P40 that doesn't work send me a PM lol. I enjoy a challenge.

I guess I've been lucky. I have a polymer Kahr and a steel Kahr, and they're both reliable. I'm curious if the double-stack would be larger than I'm willing to carry.

The steel ones look and feel very nice.

someguy2800 said:

I had a CW45. Hated it, was unreliable feeding, and couldn't hit anything with it. Then I had a CW380. I hated it and was unreliable feeding, couldn't hit anything with it, and I had to push it against a bench to rack the slide. Then I bought a P40. Hated it, wouldn't feed anything, side stop didn't work, but I could kinda sorta hit stuff with it if I really concentrated.

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You were shooting all around the bullseye! The sweet spot with the Kahr is the 9mm's.

I had both a P45 and a CW45... they both had problems, and went on down the trail. Further, they just didn't 'work' as well as the CW9, which I think is perfect. I've also passed on the Kahr .380's, although I've been tempted.

Charlie98 said:

You were shooting all around the bullseye! The sweet spot with the Kahr is the 9mm's.

I had both a P45 and a CW45... they both had problems, and went on down the trail. Further, they just didn't 'work' as well as the CW9, which I think is perfect. I've also passed on the Kahr .380's, although I've been tempted.

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The 9mm ones are the only kahr products that I don't have any interest in. My favorite 9mm kahr is a ruger. Ruger basically ripped off the trigger mechanism from kahr when they made the LC9s and Max 9 but improved on it by shortening the trigger pull length significantly and the slide rails are part of an aluminum chassis rather than being milled into the plastic, which I am still a bit dubious of.

Ruger and Kahr trigger mechanisms are completely different.

unclenunzie said:

Ruger and Kahr trigger mechanisms are completely different.

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Slightly different in design, identical in function





There is no doubt ruger was reading off of kahrs homework when they designed this, just like how the fire control system in the ruger SR series is a straight copy of a glock. Perhaps the design predates Kahr though, I'm not sure.

The ruger has more in common with a first gen XD. The kahr uses a single part cam with two lobes, one to lift the striker block and the other to complete striker tension and release. It's kind of unique in design.

I bought one of the early (pre-stainless) K9's back in the 90s while working in IN. Smooth, accurate, and reliable are its good points. Love the trigger and the sights.

It's also heavy and racking the slide takes muscle. The weight killed it as a pocket gun; but it still is a joy to shoot...even if it is boringly reliable. The reliability reported with the polymer versions kept me from buying one of those.

I'd wait a few years (or more) to see what problems are reported before buying a double-stack Kahr.

Hopefully Kahr improves their gawd awfully long trigger pull.

I will buy a Kahr double stack 9mm if it has a PM9 or CM9 slide and a good flush fit magazine that is trouble free.
All of my Kahrs function just fine. (CW45, PM9, CW9, CT380):

HPJeep said:

Hopefully Kahr improves their gawd awfully long trigger pull.

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I find the Kahr trigger not unlike that of a DA revolver trigger. It IS long, but without any other safeties, it's understandable. I'm glad Kahr went with the trigger they have, vs a 'safe trigger' with the dongle in it. A box or two of ammo through it, with the understanding you pull the trigger straight through, not stage it... and it's a very good shooting pistol.

I did almost buy a CW9 with a really awful trigger. Salesman brought the pistol out and started the paperwork... I took the pistol out of the box to check it. You had to mash the trigger back against the frame to get the striker to drop... it was obviously a defective pistol. I told the guy I wanted a different pistol... he got mad because he would have to do the paperwork all over again with the new SN. He told me to send it in to Kahr. I told him HE should send it in to Kahr... and to get me another pistol.

I was very interested in Kahr starting in 1999 or 2000 (I considered one for my first semiauto handgun), but I did not have the money for what they charged back then as I was pretty poor. I often rented a K9 at a range that had one and really enjoyed it. A buddy of mine who made a lot more than I did bought a Kahr MK9 Elite and we both shot it a lot. Loved that gun. A little heavy for the size, but reliable, accurate, and fun to shoot. Then the P series came out, and in the PM9 Kahr invented the modern micro-9, a true pocket capable 9mm. My buddy bought the PM9 and we both shot it a lot. Loved that gun too and I long had in my head that I would eventually buy one.

When I got my first small 9mm, I got a SIG P290RS because it was less money, and I liked the trigger better than the more budget oriented Kahr CM9. While the lighter weight of the Kahr would have been nice for pocket carry, I live in MD and at the time couldn't have a MD carry permit so only carried when out of state so I didn't need two small Micro-9 carry guns*. As a teacher, the Kahr was still a bit of a reach for quite a number of years as well.

Fast forward a few years, I am far enough into my career I can buy pretty much any handgun I want (within reason), but SIG comes out with the 10+1 P365, revolutionizing the micro-9 market. Others follow suit (though strangely, not Kahr). When it becomes possible to get a MD permit, I look at all the 10+ round micro-9mms and go with the P365.

20+ years ago, Kahr was on the cutting edge of the carry gun market. At some point they got complacent. Waiting half a decade after the introduction of the P365 (6 years now) to come out with a double stack micro-9 (I assume it will be a micro-9mm) seems a little too late. It would be nice if it is enough to bring Kahr back into relevance, but I'll probably pass (though, if I see the right deal on a used PM9, K9 or MK9 Elite I'll probably get one just because I have wanted one for so long, but not for any real practical use).


Edit:
* I didn't need three small Micro-9 carry guns... I sometimes forget that I bought a Kel Tec Pf-9 a week or two after buying the SIG for the lighter weight and intended pocket carry (if I knew I'd come back to do that, I would have just spent the money at the start for the PM9). I sometimes forget about it because I rarely shoot it, I don't like it much, and it has never been quite reliable enough for me to feel comfortable carrying it so I never have.

20 years or so ago, I wasn't really familiar with Kahr but my CCW instructor (who was a local LEO) carried a PM40 as his CCW. That put Kahr on my radar and I eventually picked up a CM9. My CM9 has never bobbled (knock on wood) so it's a pretty efficient and compact package. I've carried mine about every way you can carry one including pocket and ankle.

I feel like Kahr has been sitting on their hands for ~20 years and getting completely passed by the P365/Shield Plus/Hellcat innovations. Honestly, I can't believe they have waited so long to improve their product line and compete with the best selling subcompact guns. So, I'm definitely interested to see what they have come up with in the double stack market but I think they have screwed themselves by being so late. I think their potential sales volume is significantly reduced by the lengthy delay and I'm not really holding my breath that they're going to come out with something that I feel like running out to buy. We'll see.