Somebody give me the skinny on 6.5 Creedmoor

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So I can tell you - with no wondering - which group of fanboys, or rather anti-fan haters, actually exists.
It certainly works both ways. That's why I take no stance and try to be as neutral and analytical as possible. Fashions come and go and some people like to identify with products, but that's just human. Heck, psychometric research has found that the brain chemistry of some people reacts to Apple logo in the way more commonly associated with religious experiences. It doesn't get more human than that.

Like I've said before, there's nothing wrong with the product itself. Quite the opposite. The demographic associations involved are left as an exercise to the student, as is the choice whether identifying with them is worth it. It happens far easier than being mistaken for yet another old stubborn git running a gun store, though.

I think we're done here.
 
What's interesting is that I have no emotional investment in it at all. I think it's a neat cartridge, reminiscent of the 6.5x54MS (and 6.5x55 to a lesser extent) that I DO have an emotional investment in, because I lusted after them in my more impressionable years and a man never gives up on his dreams. Except it's a modernized version with all sorts of available rifles, readily available brass and dies that I don't have to go scrounging around for. Don't give a rat's ass about "hype and marketing". I care about what it does in the real world. Is it a better deer killer than anything that existed prior? Nope. Does it matter? Not to me. I like the 6.5's because they're in between the ubiquitous .30-06 class of cartridges and those .243 thingies I hate. Sharing the middle ground with the 7mm08, .257Roberts, etc..


I didn't get much (none) traction asking about 6.5 CM for hunting, so will try it again with a different tack.

OP asked about it's use for hunting. 90% of what followed was about long distance targets, which to me are two different things.
Because the cartridge was designed for PRS, not hunting.


Have been doing some research on terminal ballistics as relates to hunting, and one thing comes to the fore. Speed kills. According to some, the ideal impact for most soft point hunting bullets is going to be in range of 3000 fps down to 2600 fps. After that, it takes special soft bullets to expand enough to do enough damage to get a quick kill.

One of common complaints I've seen about the 6.5 CM is the number of animals that take a perfect hit right in the boiler room, but not killed DRT. They die, eventually. Knowing that most 140 grain bullets leave muzzle at 2600 fps, they don't have enough punch when they get there to do enough damage to put the animal down where it stands.

If one did use it for hunting, seems to me it ought to be using lighter bullets......like the 120 to 130 range that can be cranked up to at least 3000 fps. Do that and you have the equal of a 243 spitting out 125 grain bullets. That would do it. But only to a distance of 300 yards or less.

Another thing is guys seem to cross thread the idea of being able to hit targets at 500 yards plus with being able to kill game at 500 yards plus. It can and has happened, but for the most part, the terminal ballistics to ethically put down game at that range is lacking. If truth were known, I suspect more game is wounded and lost at that range than harvested. And that isn't good.
3000fps is not some magical velocity threshold. That all comes down to bullet selection, which is critical with any cartridge.
 
On the hunting part, what is the experience of animals (lets say deer) shot, lots of damage.....blood trails, etc, yet they still travel a bit before dropping?

Or DRT? If DRT, what bullet, what muzzle velocity, what distance and what shot placement? Come to think of it, if they wandered off, same.

Can we try it again?
 
DRT??? ....this is more a bullet design and bullet placement issue.....
I have taken whitetails and black bear with the 6.5x55....260 Rem....6.5 Creed....and the 26 Nosler.....
NONE had any issue with clean kills and long as I put a well constructed bullet in the right place-
Personally I like a good .264 bullet-
....but this is not to diminish or bash any other cal.....I tend to try and drive the bandwagon....not jump on or off!
 
According to some, the ideal impact for most soft point hunting bullets is going to be in range of 3000 fps down to 2600 fps. After that, it takes special soft bullets to expand enough to do enough damage to get a quick kill.

I’d say those “some” don’t have much idea about actually hunting, certainly not hunting anything bigger than varmints - which don’t really need high impact velocity either, it just adds a lot of excitement to the experience. Almost all traditional cup-and-core hunting bullets expand reliably and deliver efficiently as low as 2000fps, certainly doing fine killing well below 2600.

And noting, obviously, impact velocity specifically for the 6.5 creed with most of the bullets available for it will almost never be within this envelope.
 
I’ve been hunting with 6.5 CM rifles for about 10 years, perhaps a little longer. I’ve used cup and core bullets, bonded bullets, and monolithic bullets. None have ever reached 3000 fps, but all have killed deer. If I did my part, most were DRT. If I didn’t do my best I still found every deer I hit, most pretty quickly.

The CM is a good round for Whitetail deer. I’ve also killed deer with 6mm, 25 caliber, 7mm and 30 caliber chambers., and they worked just as well.
 
Have been doing some research on terminal ballistics as relates to hunting, and one thing comes to the fore. Speed kills. According to some, the ideal impact for most soft point hunting bullets is going to be in range of 3000 fps down to 2600 fps. After that, it takes special soft bullets to expand enough to do enough damage to get a quick kill.

I have probably spent more time killing stuff than researching the subject but lots of stuff can kill quickly.

I have killed hundreds of pigs with a single well placed .22lr. They don’t even have to cause a lot of damage or even expand, if they are put in the right place.

Like this guy that didn’t take a step after being hit by a 40 grain standard velocity solid. If you can get the ~100ft/lbs of energy to the right spot, they shut off.

BF488137-1C19-47A1-A656-4495F171B5C2.jpeg 92F1ACFC-9CD3-4A11-8ABF-20C8A2630513.jpeg

That’s more of a “night/day” or “Apples to oranges” comparison than comparing much more similar centerfire rifle rounds to one another.
 
I don't have a 6.5 CM . I do have a 6.5 X 55 S.M. . I've hunted with it about 25 years , taken lots of deer and antelope , and a few elk .Most with Sellier & Bellot 131 grain factory ammo , I bought a bunch when I bought the rifle . Once shot two antelope with one shot ( had two tags ). Quite a few D.R.T , Never had anything go more then maybe 30-40 yards . One elk , and one deer required more than one shot , both were coup de grace , not needed to stop . Longest shot about 360 yards . I know a couple of women that used one for some pretty big bull elk , both one shot kills .

A 6.5 C.M. is as good a hunting cartridge as any . And like any , if you do your job it will do its .
 
140 grain bullets leave muzzle at 2600 fps
Just wanted to note all the 140 ammo and handloads I've chrono'd in 6.5cm would hit 2750 at minimum.

I've never seen an animal need a second shot from a CM, but as everyone else said, eventually it will happen. My loads which are most of what the folks were using were 143eldx or 147eldms at 2775 average. On animals as large as big axis, every round produced and exit that was..... impressive.
I've also never shot an animal with a 6.5CM because Ive preferred to hunt with something else.
 
All that leaves me somewhere between frustrated and amused. 6 very adamant replies, yet nobody answered the questions. Danced around the edges, came close......but no cigar.
 
All that leaves me somewhere between frustrated and amused. 6 very adamant replies, yet nobody answered the questions. Danced around the edges, came close......but no cigar.
Your question has been answered thoroughly imo, and that is that there IS no hard and fast answer.

In my experience, as stated, the CM is a death ray with nothing taking a step after being hit..... probably 10-15 animals.
My loads are heavy match type bullets at 2800ish fps, animals are sub 200lbs, ranges 20-300ish yards....change those and you could get a different answer. Keep those and change the shooter, day, place, luck, and you could get a different answer.
 
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On the hunting part, what is the experience of animals (lets say deer) shot, lots of damage.....blood trails, etc, yet they still travel a bit before dropping?

Not being a deer or having been killed yet, I can only speculate it’s going to experience pain.

Or DRT? If DRT, what bullet, what muzzle velocity, what distance and what shot placement?

I don’t think there is a magic bullet or velocity or distance in relation to DRT and again speculation but I would expect less suffering in an instant death.

They certainly don’t thrash around squealing as much if you take the time to properly place the shot.

053FC0CC-1926-44E6-A42B-7BA04D780273.jpeg

I think bullet construction, velocity and energy help but that doesn’t equal certainty.
 
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So premise of my question........author of terminal wound research claims that ideal velocity at impact is within a range of 2,600 fps, an no more than 3,200 fps. (Faster than 3,200 fsp and most soft point hunting bullets will blow up on impact.......ejection vs. penetration. Blow a chunk of meat off, but animal escapes to suffer a painful death somewhere else). That is for most hunting calibers in range of 30 caliber or less. At 2,600 fps +, that is sufficient velocity for most soft point hunting bullets to expand to the point it creates a wide for caliber wound channel when sent thru the boiler room. At same time, it creates enough shock to system to shut down the nervous system. Say a good double lung shot, animal drops where it stands (nervous system shuts down), then before it can recover from the shock, it bleeds out. So two related but different forms of injury. 'His premise (and experience) says that much below 2,600 fps and same animal, same shot, nervous system does not shut down, so animal may not go down, but may still be up and moving until it bleeds out and then goes down. Ergo you get comments like "didn't get far" before it dropped. "Not far" being subjective, but perhaps a few steps to 75 yards or more. Yes it killed them.....but didn't drop on the spot. You are following blood trails and tracking to find him vs. finding him right where he dropped. Again, that is independent of caliber. Theory is that what matters is if the bullet from whatever gun is still running 2,600 fps or faster at impact to impart shock to his nervous system. And that applies to most chest shots that impact lungs, be it thru the shoulder, or just behind. Speed kills.

Where caliber comes in, and this applies to most of the 6.5's, when muzzle velocity isn't much greater than that, depending on range, bullet will have dropped below 2,600 fps at impact. In most cases, that is no more than 200 yards. Maybe less.

Ergo the very specific questions to try to confirm if the guy was FOS or credible. When you killed an animal, and it dropped right there.....what bullet, what muzzle velocity, what distance and where did the bullet impact. If all the parameters were met, then he may be right, If not, then he was not.

Where this has specific application to the 6.5 Creed relates directly to it's suitability for hunting. If his claim is true, then you need to take that into account. Load lighter bullets in 120 to 130 grain range to up velocity to extend their effective range, and accept that even then, there is an effective range, and it's not nearly as far as the gun can accurately shoot.
 
Well hard for me to say. Last 10 deer I know of all dropped on the spot, but all shots met his criteria.
 
Well hard for me to say. Last 10 deer I know of all dropped on the spot, but all shots met his criteria.

To what “chunk of meat,” in particular, do you think your author is claiming to be “blown off” when delivering a bullet into a “double lung” shot?

If you’re punching through rubs to double lung deer, there’s no “chunk of meat” to “blow off.”

Sounds like you’re either believing some Fuddery, or fabricating more of your own.
 
I can’t find any CM loads with 129/130 grain bullets that reach the 3000 fps you keep mentioning. I have two loads shooting 120 grain bullets (Barnes TTSX & Nosler BT’s) and both run about 2900. If you’re after 3000 fps you probably need to look elsewhere.

If terminal ballistics is just about velocity, the 308 wouldn’t be a suitable cartridge for deer. 30-30 would be even worse. Somehow both have been used successfully for humane kills for many decades. I’ve shot a deer with a 45-70 and it was lights out at impact. Energy takes many forms, and mass also plays a part.
 
As per author, at that velocity, there is so much resistance from tissue mass, a soft point hunting bullet is not able to penetrate, rather more or less explodes on the surface, ejecting bullet fragments and tissue mass in the proces. I can't say from my experience as nothing I load has greater than 3,150 fps muzzle velocity, and is going below that at impact.

But when I think of bullets like a Nosler Accubond, vs. Nosler Accubond Long Range.........the difference as I understand it from Nosler's info......the long range has a softer tip and jacket to enable it to expand to create wound channels at lower velocities. What happens to that long range bullet if fired at high velocity at point blank range?
 
I can’t find any CM loads with 129/130 grain bullets that reach the 3000 fps you keep mentioning. I have two loads shooting 120 grain bullets (Barnes TTSX & Nosler BT’s) and both run about 2900. If you’re after 3000 fps you probably need to look elsewhere.

If terminal ballistics is just about velocity, the 308 wouldn’t be a suitable cartridge for deer. 30-30 would be even worse. Somehow both have been used successfully for humane kills for many decades. I’ve shot a deer with a 45-70 and it was lights out at impact. Energy takes many forms, and mass also plays a part.

The 3,000 was reference to an attempt to develop a 6.5 CM load that might get up to a speed comparable to something like a 243 Win using any hunting bullet a 6.5 will spit out accurately. Past that, nothing magic about 3,000 fps.The magic number, if there is one, is to have impact speed of the bullet when it arrives running 2,600 fps or faster. That is the cutoff point to initiate shock to shut down the nervous system. To get to that speed at impact, you have to start with something greater than that coming out of the barrel.

My kid has a 308 and has taken a lot of deer with it and all using factory ammo at ranges under 150 yards. They all dropped where they stood. But I know where he hit em and range for all was under 150 yards. Every one met author's criteria.
 
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We're arguing circles and my personal experience doesn't converge with what that particular site preaches on most cartridges and bullets discussed, again difference in use etc.

I've launched 162gr Amax at 3200fps, from two rifles, I've seen bullets come apart in flight with one during target shooting recently after the gun heated up.
I've shot animals weighing up to 1000lbs with those same loads at ranges from 50yds to 400ish and every round that connected penetrated far enough to reach vitals.
On one particular feral bull I used that combo to shatter his pelvis after he took 6 rounds to the boiler room and was still trying to get away. When we broke him down there was nothing but goo forward of his diaphragm, even his heart had holes in it and he still refused to go down.

Velocity isn't magic, cartridges aren't magic, bullets aren't magic.....
We choose our options based on our experiences sometimes they work sometimes they don't.
I've lost maybe half a dozen animals over the years, and only maybe 2 do I think cartridge/bullet choice made any difference, one was a muzzle loader goat that the bullet didn't expand on, the other a large axis buck I hit three times with a 100gr .243 soft point launching at 2800 and change. Course had I broken bones with either I'd probably not have had them make it very far, so user error could well be blamed also.

You CAN reach 3000fps with 123s and the CM, but your running them hard, just as you can break 2800 with 143-147s and the right powders, it's not worth the squeeze as one of the forum guys says.
 
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