9MM 147gr Gold Dot HP

Which, of course, raises another question: IF 147's are the best rnd for the 9, THEN which 147 by what maker represents the best?

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Winchester Ranger T if you can find it. Gold Dot is a good substitute by all reports.

As for 147 grain ball, it exists. Federal makes some if memory serves.

The ammoman deal is a good one. Be advised, though, that a lot (all?) of the bulk Gold Dot are rounds that have been rejected as not meeting LE contract specs. Most of the problems have reportedly been from the nickel flaking off and similar cosmetic issues (although flakes could in quantity cause malfunctions). But the boxes are usually marked as not being fit for LEO use, and most people recommend using the rounds for training, on the off chance that the load is subpar in terms of performance. If they are working for you, go for it. I've carried some before without problems (never having to use it, thankfully).

147 grains tend to jam in my old Hi-Power- too long to make it up the feed ramp- but work fine in newer designs. I don't use them myself, but it's really a matter of taste.

There is nothing wrong with 147gr ammo.With moderen jhp's these bullets expand even at lower velocities and still out penetrate the lighter 9mm loads like 115gr/124gr.I have shot 147gr Win Rangers,Rem GS,and Fed 147gr Hydra-shok in my Glocks,and Taurus PT99 with no problems ever,low flash,and very accurate.
MOHAA

I use 147 Gr WWB personal protection in all my nines.

http://www.winchester.com/products/....aspx?symbol=USA9JHP2&cart=OW1tIEx1Z2Vy&use=3

I have a Glock 19 and I use it for CCW and home defense. I keep it loaded with Hornady TAP 147 gr. Low recoil, no muzzle flash and accurate as can be. Hornady makes great bullets and I like the extra punch of the 147.

September 15th, 2006, 01:32 AM

S&W 910

wrote:

...

Now it is time to impart some crucial information: NEVER use 147 grain ammo in a 9mm pistol! There was a stupid fad for 147 grain hollowpoints a few years ago, and many were suckered into buying these weak, worthless and malfunction-prone rounds. I don't care what you've heard: never use any 9mm hollowpoint heavier than 125 grains. 147 grain hollowpoints often jam in many popular 9mm guns like the Browning Hi-Power, SIG, Beretta 92, S&W and Glock. Ignore the gun magazine hype and stick to what works. If you want to gamble, go to Reno. Don't gamble with your life. 147 grain ammo sucks.

Bad 9mm Loads to avoid (and certainly NEVER carry). Numbers given:

Federal Gold Medal 9mm 147 grain JHP (9MS)
Federal Hydra-Shok 9mm 147 grain JHP (P9HS2)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Silvertip Subsonic JHP (X9MMST147)
Winchester 147 grain 9mm Super-X Subsonic (XSUB9MM)
Remington 147 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM8)
Remington 147 grain 9mm Golden Saber JHP (GS9MMC)
Remington 140 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM7)
Remington 88 grain 9mm JHP (R9MM5) This bullet is far too light.
CCI Lawman 147 grain 9mm PHP "Plated Hollow Point" (3619)

http://www.chuckhawks.com/ammo_by_anonymous.htm

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It never ceases to amaze me at the conclusions some people arrive at, and then pass along as absolute fact. Old data, old information, yet it remains in the now world by such declartations.

I obtained the following from:


http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000581#000002






posted 12-13-2003 18:05
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This information comparing service pistol calibers was buried in a previous thread; as it is very illuminating, I think it deserves it’s own separate topic. When comparing well designed duty handgun ammunition, there are minimal differences in penetration depths and temporary cavity effects, as noted below in the gel shots by Doug Carr:


As you increase bullet size and mass from 9 mm/357 Sig, to .40 S&W, to .45 ACP, more tissue is crushed, resulting in a larger permanent cavity. In addition, the larger bullets often offer better performance through intermediate barriers. For some, the incremental advantages of the larger calibers are offset by weapon platform characteristics. As is quite obvious from the photo above, NONE of the common service pistol calibers generate temporary cavities of sufficient magnitude to cause significant tissue damage. Anyone interested in this topic should read and periodically re-read, “Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness” by Urey Patrick of the FBI FTU, as this remains the single best discussion of the wound ballistic requirements of handguns used for self-defense -- it is available at: http://www.firearmstactical.com/hwfe.htm .



Keeping in mind that handguns generally offer poor incapacitation potential, bullets with effective terminal performance are available in all of the most commonly used duty pistol calibers—pick the one that you shoot most accurately, that is most reliable in the type of pistol you choose, and best suits you likely engagement scenarios.

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The following loads have all demonstrated outstanding terminal performance:

9 mm:
Barnes 105 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Fed 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Speer 124 gr +P JHP (53617)
Win 124 gr JHP (RA91P)
Win 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Fed 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Rem 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer 147 gr JHP (53619)


The Remington 147 grain Golden Saber is stated to be, " Bad 9mm Loads to avoid (and certainly NEVER carry).", yet the terminal effects folks found in testing that it, " demonstrated outstanding terminal performance". I rely upon Remington 147 grain Golden Sabers, as well as Buffalo Bore 147 grain +P+ pmm loads.

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#9mm

A 9mm, 147gr. Speer Uni Core @ 1175 fps, with 451 ft. lbs, of energy, does not strike me, as a cartridge to avoid. I sure do not understand some folks absolute declarations to the contrary.

My last duty load as a police officer was the 147 grain Gold Dot and it always did the job. I carried it in a Glock 19. Many of the larger police agencies on the west coast have used the 147 grain loads for years with good results. I think that pretty much anything from companies like Speer, Federal, Remington, and Winchester will be a good defense round. I personally prefer Speer product and trust all the selections in their lineup.

Cops and County Sheriffs around here that carry 9mm like the 147gr best. Matter of fact they highly recommend 180gr in 40 S&W and 230gr in 45 ACP.

I shoot it in my BHP's and have never had a single malfunction. Federal Hydra-shok's specifically.

One thing I haven't seen here is a mention of barrel twist and accuracy. This is probably minimal in a handgun-length barrel and at self-defense distances, but it is a consideration.

A heavier bullet has to spin faster than a lighter bullet to stabilize, so all else being equal, it needs a barrel with a faster rate of twist. My XD-9 is 1:10" twist which I understand is close to optimum for a 124-125 gr bullet. Glock barrels are a bit faster at (I think) 1:9.84". CZ pistols have a faster rate yet at 1:9.75" and are known to stabilize 147 gr bullets well and are considered accurate with the heavier bullet.

Depending on which pistol you're shooting, you might want to try some targeting between 147s and 125s to see if there is a handicap to the heavier bullet in your pistol.

147gr speer GDHP are excellent if they are coming out of a barrel more then 4 inches long , they do expand , i did some tests on water jugs, the 147gr GDHP did better then the 115gr GDHP the 147 gr Hydra-shoks too are excellent out of a 4 inch barrel too , i wouldnt use them with a shorter barrel gun cuz they might lose expansion. the 147gr did better then the 124 too

Old subsonic 147gr bullets started a fad among the shooting community. At the time, they were poor ballistic performers, and were designed solely for suppressed weapons.

Because of the fad, however, ammo companies started making 147gr hollow point loads with higher pressures and supersonic velocities to make money off of this trend.

Nowadays, modern 147gr 9mm ammo is just about the best man-stopping ammo you can get for the weapon. I personally use 147gr GDHPs in my Kel-Tec PF-9.

My Sig P239 is always 100% reliable with Federal 147gr HST.

I'm always amused that people are still carrying the old Hydrashock technology even though the HST is a far superior design, but whatever.

The modern 147gr rounds from all the major manufacturers is far better than the old sub-sonic rounds of the past. Any will suit you fine.

Lots of good info/opinions in here...

Me? I'd take 147gr HST or DoubleTap (uses gold dot bullet) 147gr JHP over any other 9mm JHP for self defense. The idea that 147gr is "slow" is stupid. It can be slow, but that depends on how it was loaded up

CPshooter said:

Lots of good info/opinions in here...

Me? I'd take 147gr HST or DoubleTap (uses gold dot bullet) 147gr JHP over any other 9mm JHP for self defense. The idea that 147gr is "slow" is stupid. It can be slow, but that depends on how it was loaded up

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CP - I like your way of thinking.

I run Federal 124 grn. HST's from my CZs.

The feed, shoot and expand very consistantly, and the price is right.

Today's 147 offerings are far superior to those that have been discussed in the past.


I think if the LAPD had issues with the 147s, they would have adopted something better by now.


I still prefer the higher velocity Double Tap version of the Gold Dot.

Hornady Double Tap puts a Gold Dot on top of 1135 fps?

I know energy is an incomplete indicator of bullet effectiveness, but 429 foot-pounds is something that would make me feel VERY safe. Sixteen of those in a good CZ most definitely would do any job I'd worry about aside from annoying a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

additional edit: 166 IPSC Power factor is nothing to sneeze at either.

I'm not a ballistics expert by any mean, but those Speer Gold Dots, when you get them out of the box, have some kind of crumbly substance/lint in the tips. That can't be good. Other hollow point brands are very uniform and clean.

Speer Gold Dots came highly recommended, and that's why I carry them. But it is a little unsettling.