intimidated by getting into ak's.

Seems like you want an AK. Any type will do what you ask of it. Wasr's finish can be rough, but its ok. Goes bang every time, but if you choose one, just look for canted sights (both front and rear) and bull the bolt to see if the gas piston is on straight. If none of the above are present and the price is good, then buy! You can do anything to one of those that you could to any other ak with reguards to furniture etc. If you are intent on a folding stock, you might want to look at an underfolder (polish being my personal fav), or an AMD 65, maybe a Polish Tantal. Underfolder and or AMD will be stuck with the stock they have, no changing those. The AMD you won't be able to do much with the front end furniture unless you want a railed front. Saiga coversion is simple and fun if you have some technical ability and a little patience. In the end you will have a russian ak which is about as nice as it gets right now. The downside is the parts to really ak it up can be more expensive with regards to the front end furniture and front sight block/threaded bbl. If you are content with stock and pistol grip, high cap mags then you can convert for under $100. Don't forget the compliance trigger group parts. Finally some of the nicest AK's came in the early 90's but are pricey, again my personal favorite which I one day hope to own is a nice polytech underfolder/spike bayo. Look around, handle a lot, but with an AK your really with the furniture that comes on them, look at ironwood designs for a lot of wood furniture possibilities.

Good Luck, lets see some pics when you decide.

First off, I don't like the idea of chopping up a Saiga to make an "AK" out of it. After owning many of them would not go back that road. I'm sure that comment is going to get all kinds of flack but take it or leave it. I would by the best AK that you can afford. There are many different types of receivers. Milled is best, the M70s also have a heavy receiver. Some AKs are labeled as 1mm and 1.6mm thick steel. Buy from a company that will allow you to buy and shoot the weapon and send it back if you have a problem with it or even simply don't like it. Also many dealers will provide warrant service if you do have an issue down the road, or at least contact the manufacture for you if there is an issue that’s not being taken care of.

Saiga.

Saiga

Click to expand...

Sigh.......typical

Nothing wrong with the WASR. It is ugly and has a poor finish but those things are in my definition of an AK.

I want something cheap-moderately priced, durable and reliable with minimal guesswork.

Click to expand...

Yep, you want a WASR.

If you're on a budget, I'd recommend the Inter-Ordnance (commonly called "I.O. Inc") Liberty model. I've purchased two, paid $500 each, and love them both. They're accurate, use new barrels made by Mossberg, and I haven't had any problems with them. I will say both of mine have some machining marks on the receiver, but it doesn't affect the function.

The biggest thing is to avoid canted sights / gas tubes (like atlanticfire said), and worn out barrels. IO Inc will fit the bill. There are better models out there, but I've found that the IO is a good middle-ground between a WASR and an Arsenal.

Getting into AK's is not hard at all. Just Google an AK website and read it all. It will give you all the info you need on it's history, operation, breakdown of parts as well as cleaning, and also how to sight it in and use the sight markings.

Personally I have two AK's.
One is a converted Saiga and the other is a cheap Romanian WASR which I stripped the furniture and restained it.
They both function 100% percent and shoot about 3 MOA with Barnaul or Wolf Military Classic and recently I have been using PRIVPATZI. They open up with Golden Tiger to about 4 or so. This is from a bench of course, not offhand.
They both look great especially after redoing the WASR's furniture but the Saiga's fit and finish is a bit nicer. WASR was $350 and Saiga ran around $400 but I did those before prices went crazy and the conversion was done by me.

I nowadays would buy a WASR and redo the furniture. I never found the more expensive ones to give me anything more than a bit nicer finish which if was a real problem could be handled with a can of Duracote. It also has a side mount rail which makes mounting optics very easy. The milled receivers are said to be more accurate but I have never seen this to be true YMMV, I have only found them to be heavier and more money.

I have always had good luck with Classicarms and you can get a Romanian Military version with shooters package delivered for about $440. They also have great customer service and would help if any problem arose with the rifle. When I ordered I asked about the cant and mag issues and was told that they give them a once over before shipping but she would make sure they took care of my rifle. It arrived with everything in line and no magazine wobble, at least no more than my Saiga has which comes from the original factory.



http://www.classicarms.us/



Information site to start at, they have a column on the right that will bring you to a ton of information and links from their that will bring you to others.

http://kalashnikov.guns.ru/

http://www.ak-47.us/



Edited to Add:
If you can get a WASR for 350-400 locally then you can chech it out to ensure their is no problems to begin with which is good. I would see if they are the Military version which comes with the slant cut instead of the nut screwed on and also a bayonet lug. The online people I sent you to for $440 plus your FFL fee give you the Military version with sling, 4 mags, mag pouch, bayonet, sling and case plus other small crap like oil bottle. If these extras don't matter then definitely look at your local shops, if having one with the extra little features that make Anit's scream matters then you may have to go online.

Arsenal SGL-21... it is a factory FULL Saiga conversion (front and back). The major components are a high quality build straight out of Russia, and the conversion bits are done by the best mainstream AK company in the US. Personally I'd take one over a WASR every time, but either should be reliable.

A WASR will do everything you stated in your first post, and do it at the lowest. A Saiga conversion will too. A converted Saiga is the best bang for the buck in terms of quality provided you get one at a decent price in the first place, do the work your self and pay a fair price for any parts.

If you want a project then get the saiga if you want out of the box ready to go get the wasr. The "high end" AKs really don't justify their price IMO, and certainly not in terms of function.

You would be perfect for a WASR. Enjoy

There is nothig magical about the gas blocks on AKs.

If you don't care about the potential issues you mentioned, and are just looking for reliability at the lowest price, the WASR is your gun.

AcceptableUserName said:

not worried about mag wobble, noise, trigger slap...all these things to me seem like luxuries. I'm not in the market for luxuries. If I can bypass them great, but theyre not hundreds of dollar type differences to me.

what is NOT negotiable is that the round goes bang like a mutha, will go through hell if need be, minimal jams, won't break, give me fits, etc...I'm honestly ok with 5-10" MOA, you know, CM sized groupings


so upon further eval, you guys still think im ok with a WASR?

Click to expand...

You'll get far more for your money with a Saiga.

The WASRs are built from recycled and rejected military parts, and you just don't know what you're gonna end up with.

The Saiga is brand new production, using many 1st quality military parts (it is a "sporting rifle"). No "seconds" or "rejected for military use" parts in it. The Saiga is also cheaper.

Found the Romanian specific website, great to review no matter what AK you choose.

http://www.novarata.net/Linx310/model.htm



The two you are looking at are good. The AK47c I don't have any experience with but Atlantic Firearms is good so with the lifetime warranty any issues would be covered.
The second one you posted is the same as the one from ClassicArms. It's about a hundred dollars more than Classic and fifty bucks less if you get the shooters package with free shipping.

AcceptableUserName said:

what is an AK-47c?

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm not sure why IO adds the "C" to all their model names. I also own an AUSA / RPG Arms AK and all the IO parts are interchangeable with the it. Maybe their own versioning nomenclature on the furniture configuration? The steel is all the same as what you and I would think of as an AK-47 (which is actually an AKM).

The Arsenal SGLs seem to have a good reputation.

If you may want to have a folder you pretty much need to go that route from the first Both the underfolders and left side folders require a different receiver. Of the various types of folders I'd only want the left side folder or the solid stock. The left side folder doesn't adversely effect cheekweld and locks up solid.

Underfolders have poor cheekweld and a tendency to go wobbly. The right side wire folders are pretty miserable in the cheekweld department too.

My Arsenal SLR107FR. BSW

Get a WASR. Not that GP1975. Check for:
Front Sight Cant
Gas Block Cant
Rear Sight Block Cant
Magazine Fit (try several mags-they should lock up tight and not droop in the rear)

This is the most bang for the buck. You can customize at will. Pretty much ANY furniture or flash hider (14mm LH) will work as long as you keep 922r parts count in mind.

Steel surplus mags work just fine. US Palm makes a USA made AK mag that is getting good reviews. In regards to ammo. Try severals brands/bullet weights/styles to find out what your gun likes. Get an AK sight tool.

That's a beautiful rifle, BSW. I didn't see much of the typical silver arc under your safety. Do they put in extra clearance between the arm and the receiver, or was that a pre-abuse photo? Again, though, congrats on the awesome-looking rifle.

Ive had 2 WASR rifles. The first one I bought iwhen I was senior in high school had a problem. The mag well was reall rough and didnt like to release mags. A little TLC with a file solved this.

My second one a couple years ago was great right out of the box.

Both were very reliable weapons and were accurate enough out to say 2-300 yards.

Those pics are post Duracoating. I really should take some more of how it looks now after a few hundred rounds and a couple rifle matches.



BSW