Hi everyone,
I've been reading about the 9x23, and have become intrigued. I have a friend already pursuing the conversion of a 1911 to this caliber, and am contemplating doing a conversion of my own. I've done a lot of web research, and have narrowed the choice of convertible firearms down a bit, but could benefit from some guidance to make the final choice. For those who don't want to read the rest of my somewhat lengthy post, I'm looking hard at the Para P-18 and the large framed Tanfoglio/EAA Witness in 9mm, but I've never owned a 1911 or CZ75 pattern gun. I would greatly appreciate hearing your recommendations, insights or experiences.
Just to save everyone some time and effort, let me state, up front, that I recognize the inherent risk in such an endeavor, accept full responsibility for potentially blowing myself up, and plan to take suitable precautions. Please make no assumptions about the necessary modifications I will do myself and those I will have an experienced gunsmith do. I will make the final judgement regarding which modifications I will attempt myself, based on my available tools, level of confidence and my ability to verify the correctness of a modification. Warnings regarding complications, "gotcha's", and recommended techniques specific to the proposed conversion are, of course, appreciated.
First, some "wants". I'd like this pistol to be steel framed and double stack, but would change my mind on those things if someone convinced me that either of those criteria were a problem. I would also like to use/convert the original barrel, with the option of buying a second, 9mm barrel later, for practice (i.e. I don't want to have to buy a second/conversion barrel immediately).
Below are some of my working assumptions, based on my research, which could do with a bit more confirmation. It seems that some people who do this conversion start with a 38 Super pistol, presumably to insure that the strength, slide travel and magazine capacity are all adequate for 9x23. I'm thinking that 9mm, in the appropriate frame, would be a better starting place, for the following reasons:
1. The bolt face and extractor for 9x23 pistols are the same as for 9x19, and slightly different than for 38 Super pistols, which may or may not run well with 9x23, depending on the particular pistol and how much gunsmithing is done.
2. The bore diameter for 38 Super is just a little bit larger than that of 9x19 and 9x23, which are the same, with potential accuracy related consequences.
3. A 9x19 chamber can be reamed for 9x23, but a 38 Super chamber, which is not tapered, probably can't.
4. There are full-sized platforms available that use the exact same frame, including magwell dimensions, for 9x19 as is used for larger calibers such as 45ACP, 38 Super and 10mm, insuring that slide travel and mag OAL tolerance won't be a problem for 9x23 even when starting with a 9mm gun. For such a gun, the barrel profile will be identical, so the strength (i.e. tolerance to chamber pressure) should already be as good as it can be in the factory 9mm barrel.
Assumptions 2 and 3 are important because I want to use the original barrel. Assumption 1 is generally relevant. Assumption 4 is only relevant if I continue down the path of starting with a 9mm. Both the P-18 and the Witness, in 9mm, seem to meet the criteria in assumption 4.
My questions are as follows:
Are any of my assumptions wrong? (I can and will confirm some of them with the relevant manufacturer before purchasing)
Does anyone know if the 9mm magazines in either of these guns will accomodate 9x23, at COL of 1.26? If not, any reason why I couldn't use the corresponding 38 Super mag in the 9mm frame of either of these (i.e. is the shape and size of the mag well of the 9mm version identical to that of the 38 Super version of the same gun)?
Does anyone know of another steel framed, double stack 9mm that might make a good conversion (or why I should not want to convert a double stack or steel firearm)?
Your attention to my lengthy post, and any time spent replying, is much appreciated.
I've been reading about the 9x23, and have become intrigued. I have a friend already pursuing the conversion of a 1911 to this caliber, and am contemplating doing a conversion of my own. I've done a lot of web research, and have narrowed the choice of convertible firearms down a bit, but could benefit from some guidance to make the final choice. For those who don't want to read the rest of my somewhat lengthy post, I'm looking hard at the Para P-18 and the large framed Tanfoglio/EAA Witness in 9mm, but I've never owned a 1911 or CZ75 pattern gun. I would greatly appreciate hearing your recommendations, insights or experiences.
Just to save everyone some time and effort, let me state, up front, that I recognize the inherent risk in such an endeavor, accept full responsibility for potentially blowing myself up, and plan to take suitable precautions. Please make no assumptions about the necessary modifications I will do myself and those I will have an experienced gunsmith do. I will make the final judgement regarding which modifications I will attempt myself, based on my available tools, level of confidence and my ability to verify the correctness of a modification. Warnings regarding complications, "gotcha's", and recommended techniques specific to the proposed conversion are, of course, appreciated.
First, some "wants". I'd like this pistol to be steel framed and double stack, but would change my mind on those things if someone convinced me that either of those criteria were a problem. I would also like to use/convert the original barrel, with the option of buying a second, 9mm barrel later, for practice (i.e. I don't want to have to buy a second/conversion barrel immediately).
Below are some of my working assumptions, based on my research, which could do with a bit more confirmation. It seems that some people who do this conversion start with a 38 Super pistol, presumably to insure that the strength, slide travel and magazine capacity are all adequate for 9x23. I'm thinking that 9mm, in the appropriate frame, would be a better starting place, for the following reasons:
1. The bolt face and extractor for 9x23 pistols are the same as for 9x19, and slightly different than for 38 Super pistols, which may or may not run well with 9x23, depending on the particular pistol and how much gunsmithing is done.
2. The bore diameter for 38 Super is just a little bit larger than that of 9x19 and 9x23, which are the same, with potential accuracy related consequences.
3. A 9x19 chamber can be reamed for 9x23, but a 38 Super chamber, which is not tapered, probably can't.
4. There are full-sized platforms available that use the exact same frame, including magwell dimensions, for 9x19 as is used for larger calibers such as 45ACP, 38 Super and 10mm, insuring that slide travel and mag OAL tolerance won't be a problem for 9x23 even when starting with a 9mm gun. For such a gun, the barrel profile will be identical, so the strength (i.e. tolerance to chamber pressure) should already be as good as it can be in the factory 9mm barrel.
Assumptions 2 and 3 are important because I want to use the original barrel. Assumption 1 is generally relevant. Assumption 4 is only relevant if I continue down the path of starting with a 9mm. Both the P-18 and the Witness, in 9mm, seem to meet the criteria in assumption 4.
My questions are as follows:
Are any of my assumptions wrong? (I can and will confirm some of them with the relevant manufacturer before purchasing)
Does anyone know if the 9mm magazines in either of these guns will accomodate 9x23, at COL of 1.26? If not, any reason why I couldn't use the corresponding 38 Super mag in the 9mm frame of either of these (i.e. is the shape and size of the mag well of the 9mm version identical to that of the 38 Super version of the same gun)?
Does anyone know of another steel framed, double stack 9mm that might make a good conversion (or why I should not want to convert a double stack or steel firearm)?
Your attention to my lengthy post, and any time spent replying, is much appreciated.