1911 sear breaking

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Echo9

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Has anyone ever heard of a (pre-series 80) 1911 discharging because the sear or another component broke while the chamber was loaded? I've looked but so far haven't found any documentation.
 
I sincerely hope that you do not shoot your balls off, but that doesn't really answer my question.
 
Actually I already know that the hammer will fall if the sear breaks (or "disappears"); I'm just wondering if anyone's actually heard of a gun firing that way or actually seen it happen.
 
No.
But then again, I've only been carrying, shooting, and working on them for 45+ years.

The vast majority of sear problems I have seen were the result of someones overzealous use of a file or stone trying to do a trigger job they had no idea how to do properly.

rc
 
I would seriously rethink that with all the crappy MIM sears they are using in today's crappy clones. Just my thoughts
 
Is this good enough?

http://thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6249212&postcount=103

When I was stationed at FLETC in the 1980's we received a report of a state police officer (It might have been Michigan) who was attending a La Maze class with his wife. He was carrying a 1911 in condition I and the report stated that the 1911 discharged through the chair with no one being injured on its own! (It should have been easily verified if the trooper left it in its fired condition, with an empty casing in the chamber and the safety engaged.)

I was at a loss as to how this could occur and asked our armorers about it. They explained that the thumb safety blocks the sear, not the hammer and if a poor trigger job had been done it is possible for a 1911 to have an AD with the safety on.

The quote I remember was, "To be safe the .45's hammer hooks must not be shortened." I had no clue since I was trained to diagnose and fix wheel guns and not semi-autos. (Semi-automatics were, at that time, banned from being carried on duty.)

Since that time Colt has come out with a firing pin block as have other manufacturers which should make a Condition III carry much safer.

Now that I am retired, if I were to carry a 1911 that did not have a firing pin block, I would use a holster with a safety strap (Probably a thumb break style) that would not permit the hammer to inadvertently fall on the firing pin.

Respectfully,
kent
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Join Date: July 19, 2008
Posts: 20 Quote:
If the sear hook on the hammer were to break, the sear would be captured by the half-cock notch preventing an accidental discharge. The stud that locks the sear will also not allow the hammer to fall if the safety is engaged
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.

Eddie, that brought back a memory. When the NRA authorized semi-automatics in PPC competition I decided that I'd give it a try. We had a bunch of match 185 grain SWC FMC in the bunker and the armorer had just finished a 1911 that would group into 1.5" at 50 yards. I practiced diligently for weeks before the match. At the match I was assigned the far right firing point so that my empty casings wouldn't rain down on other competitors. I had been averaging 1984 out of 1500 which wouldn't win, but would be great fun in any case.

Match one was 12 rounds in 25 seconds at 7 yards and then at 15 yards. Seven yards was all X's which was a good start. The NRA required that the semi-auto be shot empty before any reload so that the range officer could see that it was empty during the reload. At 15 yards I fired the first six, dropped the magazine into a large bucket, reloaded and when I pressed the slide release the slide shot forward as did the hammer which was immediately followed by a very unexpected "Bang." The UD stuck the target in its right arm. I somehow got the remaining five into the ten ring, but only barely as I was shaking.

I was quite down-trodden as we went back to score. It was buddy scoring and a police woman next to me scored it 240. (Perfect score) It was not easy to point out the arm shot. (Score = 230)

I hoped I could still post a respectable score, but I had to align the sights each time I dropped the slide, (Just in case) and my front sight was a blur for the rest of the match since I couldn’t stop shaking.

The armorer inspected the .45 and stated that he had reduced the half-cock notch to protect his trigger job, and when the slide went forward the hammer followed and sheared the notch.

He then put it in the Ransom rest with five rounds in the magazine and pressed the trigger. What followed was a complete surprise. It went “full auto” with four of the five rounds going over the trees!

I felt quite badly about the match score, but I was very grateful that the 1911 hadn’t gone full auto during the Regional.

Respectfully,
kent
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No, not good enough.
The OP ask about broken sears causing AD's.

Not crappy trigger jobs causing ND's.

Like I said in post #6, all of them I have personally seen in about 45 years have been caused by crappy trigger jobs, not broken sears.
Just like those two examples.



rc
 
rcmodel said:
SO, how many broken MIM sear related NG's / AD's do you personally know of?

rc
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Hey guys the resurgence of the 1911 though clones are some pretty guns, but lets get realistic the design is 100 years old and antiquated. Even our military has abandoned them. There are far better pistols out there and .45 bullets are not the only ones that kill people. When have you ever seen a military functional repeating .45 caliber rifle. The M1 and M14 were .30 caliber or 7mm and the current military rifle is .22 caliber or 5mm.
 
rcmodel said:
No, not good enough.
The OP ask about broken sears causing AD's.

Not crappy trigger jobs causing ND's.

Like I said in post #6, all of them I have personally seen in about 45 years have been caused by crappy trigger jobs, not broken sears.
Just like those two examples.



rc
Click to expand...
Just because you did not see it doesn't mean it did not happen. I didn't see the Lunar Mission Take Off but I know we landed on the moon a few times.

Just saying!
 
Hey guys the resurgence of the 1911 though clones are some pretty guns, but lets get realistic the design is 100 years old and antiquated.
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Pure sillyness. It is still one of the most copied and sought after designs, simply because it is so good, regardless of how "old" the design is.
 
Even our military has abandoned them.
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Actually, that's not true. Read up on the MEU/SOC program. There are a good many still in service, with more in the offing.

There are two important reasons why the military went over to the Beretta M9/92 pistol in large numbers.

One was simple logistics...with probably a little politics thrown in...to have ammunition commonality with our NATO allies. Everybody except us had a 9mm service pistol.

Two...and probably the most important...was economics. The largest percentage of 1911s and 1911A1 pistols in our armories were flat worn out, and replacement parts were getting short.
Colt...their last remaining contractor from WW2...hadn't maintained the production capability to meet demand for another military contract, and had sold off much of their machinery and tooling anyway...so the cost to retool and ramp up their production capabilities would have made the guns so costly to produce, that it wouldn't have been possible and stay within budget.

The Berettas were there in large numbers, and the production capability was in place to produce more at a cost that the allocations could absorb.
 
but lets get realistic the design is 100 years old and antiquated. Even our military has abandoned them. There are far better pistols out there
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Guess that is why some government, entities military and law enforcement use (or should a say rely?) 1911's from Kimber and other manufacturers.

Not saying the 1911 is the be all, end all of gun designs...I'm just saying it isn't antiquated or abandoned. I love my 1911 and carry it daily concealed. I also love my new Gen4 Glock. Is either better overall? Nope, both perform certain tasks very well. Since my 1911 is dead reliable in my experience and I shoot accurately with it, I carry it for self defense. I'm not fighting evil zombie hordes, so 8-9 rounds on a platform I am comfortable and accurate with will do me just fine.
 
Echo9 said:
Has anyone ever heard of a (pre-series 80) 1911 discharging because the sear or another component broke while the chamber was loaded? I've looked but so far haven't found any documentation.
Click to expand...
I thought that was what the half-cock notch was for??? To catch the hammer if something broke.

Bill
 
To address the OP's question..To wit:

Has anyone ever heard of a (pre-series 80) 1911 discharging because the sear or another component broke while the chamber was loaded?
Click to expand...

I've never heard of it.

A few years back, I arranged a little demonstration for a guy who was a little skeptical over Condition One carry.

I removed a full 1/8th inch from the sear crown with a Dremel cutoff wheel, and installed it in a gun. Not only did it hold full cock, but functioned normally for over 30 rounds before the hammer started to follow. During fire, it never doubled or burst-fired. When it finally started to follow during a reload...after a couple dozen attempts...the half cock caught it every time.

Then I removed the hammer hooks from the hammer...thumbed the hammer back past the full-cock position and let fly. The half-cock never failed to stop it in 10 tries.
 
It can't catch a broken sear that fell of the hammer hooks. Now think about that. There would be nothing to catch if the sear edges broke. Now I have seen a lot of broken sears in the service when the south paws had to carry them at half cock. Maybe Browning thought everyone was right handed like Walther also did...:uhoh:
 
. Now I have seen a lot of broken sears in the service when the south paws had to carry them at half cock.
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No branch of the military that I'm aware of authorized anyone to maintain a 1911 or any other weapon with a chambered round unless action was immediately in the offing...and none authorized half cock at all...even though it was and is a de facto safety position as defined by Browning's patents.
 
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