Student at UVU harassed for open carry video

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mljdeckard

mljdeckard

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There was a story tonight on our local Fox affiliate , a student at Utah Valley University was confronted by campus police for open-carrying on campus. They haven't posted the story on the website yet, but the long and short of it is; he was posting material as president of the campus republican chapter, someone called the campus police for MWAG, they responded. As the conversation became prolonged, he pulled out his iphone and started filming. The news team confirmed with BCI, the student was well within his rights and the state college has no latitude to make gun laws, the state has pre-emption. The police kept trying to insist that the law doesn't ALLOW students to open carry, but the truth is, it doesn't PROHIBIT it. I attended this campus a long time ago, and I had some VERY silly conversations with the campus cops and their notions of what is and is not legal. This isn't even a NEW law and they don't know what it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjaQJs8eoMk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzyYu9dhIY0

This will force clarification to campus cops in their interpretation of the law, but I still don't want to be one of the cases that they learn from.
 
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Rights/legalities aside the cop made me lol when he called the kid out by saying if you're really buddies with Shurtleff go ahead and have him give me a call.

Two thoughts I think open carry in places like a college campus is likely to alarm people and does more potential harm by giving people a reason to advocate changing the law than it does good by winning people over.

The flip side is that if you don't use the right, i.e. no one can every open carry at a university to avoid ruffling feathers then that is largely the functional equivalent of having the law changed anyways so what is lost.

Lawsuit? I'm guessing the UVU kid doesn't really want to deal with all the headaches of that.

The U of U already lost a lawsuit trying to enforce school policy in violation of state law. I do think this issue should be pressed to a positive resolution.
 
The student needs to petition the Utah AG for clarification (along with this video and a written description of the event) - and that will be the end of this type of stuff for UVU. He also needs to get more fiends to open carry as well. Good luck with it - it's the people like this that change the world.
 
unreal.

The guy did very well... im not so sure if i would have gotten away without being charged. Mall cops acting like god. Unreal.

JOe
 
While I completely support his right to open carry, and realize that he was well within the law, I would simply ask this:

Why? To make a point?

If you're carrying to protect yourself, you clearly have a tactical advantage if you're carrying concealed. As well as it being the more considerate option.

Let's face it. Some people are just freaked out if they see a gun.

It's ignorance. It's silly. Nevertheless, it IS.

Why would you even want to deal with all of that hassle? Conceal and you get what you want with no problems. Open carry and deal with the cops every 15 minutes. I just don't see the logic in it regardless of how right he is.
 
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Why? To make a point?
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Yep, that's the point of the OC movement. Hey, if people like this don't stand up and do this, the public will never understand that firearms aren't the cause of crime. I mean, if people don't see guns in common use by law abiding citizens, how are they going to get educated about them?
 
It's ignorance. It's silly. Nevertheless, it IS.
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The Brady Campaign says the same thing about concealed carry. I'm glad that you think I am ignorant and silly - that is why I have spent 26 years in military service, to protect your right to come out in public and proclaim how ignorant and silly I am for upholding my oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies, both foreign and DOMESTIC. One small way that I fulfill that oath every day is by open carrying.

Why would you even want to deal with all of that hassle? Conceal and you get what you want with no problems.
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I don't get what I want when I conceal my gun. I don't get deterrence. A concealed firearm is for defense against an attack after that attack has begun. An openly carried firearm is for deterring that attack from beginning.

As well as it being the more considerate option.
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Are the anti's considerate of our rights to protect ourselves? Why should I give up the deterrent value of my openly carried firearm to be considerate of their unfounded fears? If they don't like the sight of my gun, then let them go somewhere else - there is nothing inconsiderate about that.
 
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While I completely support his right to open carry, and realize that he was well within the law, I would simply ask this:

Why? To make a point?

If you're carrying to protect yourself, you clearly have a tactical advantage if you're carrying concealed. As well as it being the more considerate option.

Let's face it. Some people are just freaked out if they see a gun.

It's ignorance. It's silly. Nevertheless, it IS.

Why would you even want to deal with all of that hassle? Conceal and you get what you want with no problems. Open carry and deal with the cops every 15 minutes. I just don't see the logic in it regardless of how right he is.
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That is only YOUR opinion. IMO open carry is not a disadvantage, some see a gun and think "I'll wait until he leaves" or "not hitting this place"... there is a recent news story where the BG's were waiting untill an OC left before they robbed the place, their scout told them a man with a gun was inside and while waiting the cops saw the car suspiciously waiting.

IMO the public needs to see that a person with a gun doesn't mean CHAOS....

you can have your opinion, and we can have ours... just don't think your better than anyone else because of it.

JOe
 
Two customers displaying holstered pistols deterred an armed robbery in a Kennesaw Wafflehouse recently.

There is some debate raging in Georgia about whether people should conceal their holstered handguns while in public. Some believe that wearing handguns openly will result in a loss of the element of surprise during a criminal attack, such as an armed robbery, while others believe that wearing handguns openly deters criminal attack. For Matt Brannan and J.P. Mitchell, who carry openly as a routine, the issue is no longer academic.

Matt Brannan and J.P. Mitchell were dining in the Wafflehouse on Barrett Parkway at I-575 in Kennesaw at 4:45 in the morning recently when a scout for an armed robbery crew entered the restaurant to case it. At the time, Matt and J.P. thought he looked a little suspicious, as he was wandering around the small restaurant like he was looking for someone. Unknown to Matt and J.P., two cars full of armed robbers were parked behind the restaurant waiting for the scout's report.

The scout saw that two of the customers were wearing holstered 1911 Springfield Mil-Spec .45 pistols, and he immediately turned and left the store.

Meanwhile, conscientious Cobb County Police Officer D. Lowe had noticed suspicious cars sitting behind the restaurant in the dark and decided to investigate. He caught men with masks and rifles who had been preparing to rob the Wafflehouse. The criminals informed the police that they had changed their mind upon discovering armed customers and were waiting for Matt and J.P. to leave. Ironically, the police car was pulling in to the parking lot just as Matt and J.P. were driving away. In other words, had Matt and J.P. not been armed, the robbery probably would have occurred before the police intervened.

Captain Jerry Quan, the Commander for Precinct One, where the Wafflehouse is located, confirmed Matt Brannan's story as one in which the open display of a pistol deterred a well armed robbery crew.

Matt Brannan is making an Open Records Act request, and there will be an update to this story when more information is available. The case number is 09-133500. There will be updates and follow up articles as more information becomes available.

If you do not want to miss any follow up articles, please click on the Subsribe button under the headline, above.
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http://www.examiner.com/x-5619-Atla...8-Open-carry-deters-armed-robbery-in-Kennesaw
 
NavyLT,

Whoa, there.......you are taking what I said completely wrong. What I meant was that the fearful attitude towards firearms is ignorant and silly, nevertheless, it is something that we are forced to deal with every day.

As far as the rest of what you said, all very valid points that I had not considered.
 
Wow........ talk about starting a firestorm.

Okay, my apologies. Didn't mean to step on any toes. I certainly don't think I'm better than ANYONE, certainly not anybody in here. Open carry is not an option where I live, and even if it were, given my line of work, I would be causing myself more trouble than it's worth to engage in the practice.

I had forgotten that Kennesaw story, and that certainly makes the more valid argument.
 
Wow........ talk about starting a firestorm.

Okay, my apologies. Didn't mean to step on any toes. I certainly don't think I'm better than ANYONE, certainly not anybody in here. Open carry is not an option where I live, and even if it were, given my line of work, I would be causing myself more trouble than it's worth to engage in the practice.

I had forgotten that Kennesaw story, and that certainly makes the more valid argument.
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i apologize if i came off like a jerk. Not intended..

It just sounded similar to when my hunting buddy's saw no need for people owning AR style rifles. It just irked me that they had the right of mind to decide what people could have or even had to justify a reason to owning one.
 
if you don't mind my asking, what is your line of work, which would make open carry such a hassle? (not trying to be combative, just genuinely curious)
 
For what it's worth, I get into more arguments about RKBA than anything else I know of. I carry 24/7 and think that EVERYONE should. For me, it's about FAR more than just guns. It's about the definition of true liberty and freedom. It's about the historical aspect of just what has happened to disarmed societies. It's about the fact that the founding fathers thought that the RKBA was second ONLY to freedom of speech.

If nothing else, this discussion has put open carry in a light that I hadn't considered previously.
 
I open carry, and have never been hassled. The thing that originally pushed me to do it is that you can't get a CCW in MO till 23, but can start open carrying at 18 if gifted the handgun. I got to buy my first handgun when I turned 21 and like I said, Open Carry was my only option.

Now I would OC or CC without any problem. For me it all depends on what is more comfortable with my clothing. (ie. if I have a coat on, it's concealed on my hip, and there's no point for me to try and tuck my coat behind my gun.) However if I were open carrying and were hassled, I would do the same as the kid. Stand for my right until they attempt to use other laws like disorderly conduct to arrest you. I don't have the time or the money to deal with the court system.
 
CaptainMarko,

Glad to hear you weren't calling us open carriers ignorant and silly! :D Sorry I was a bit over-defensive and took it that way. Glad we could shed some more light as to why we choose to open carry, and glad that you are open-minded enough to see merit in those reasons!
 
I'd like to see an OC rally happen there. I watched one of the local news reports and it was rather positive pointing out that multiple official agencies in charge of the matter say the young man is within his rights.

The school and the school's police force need to be made to follow the law.
 
Big Boy said:
However if I were open carrying and were hassled, I would do the same as the kid. Stand for my right until they attempt to use other laws like disorderly conduct to arrest you. I don't have the time or the money to deal with the court system.
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That is kind of where I was originally headed with all of this. It seems to me, that when you are standing around, debating the law with an LEO who is not on your side, you've already lost. Your chances of changing their mind are zero when the they've already decided that you're in the wrong, you just don't know it yet.

The kid was smart to record the whole encounter.
 
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