im a M1 garand newbie and was looking at a m1 chambered in .308. any thoughts on what is better... .308 vs. 30.06? is the .308 easier to find or cheaper? ive heard that one should put military grade ammo in a 30.06 m1, but i dont know how easy it is to find. i have also heard that 150 grain military 30.06 has virtually the same ballistics as the 7.62 x 51. any help would be great.
M1 Garand .308 or 30.06???
- Thread starter skipbo32
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10X
Member
The 30-06 is the original and proper caliber for an M1. The 30-06 150 grain round will go 3,000 fps. The 308 will go 2,800. To me that is a big difference. The 308 round is a bit more accurate than a 30-06, but that is rifle dependent.
You must use ammo, whether 30-06 or 308, in a given powder burning rate to prevent damaging the operating rod and to allow the rifle to function properly. Manufacturers (web pages) can tell what will and will not work.
I don't find 30-06 any more or less difficult to find than 308.
You must use ammo, whether 30-06 or 308, in a given powder burning rate to prevent damaging the operating rod and to allow the rifle to function properly. Manufacturers (web pages) can tell what will and will not work.
I don't find 30-06 any more or less difficult to find than 308.
I have shot and owned a number of Match Grade Garands.
I have one in 308 Winchester with a 1:10 Douglas Barnett barrel. It is an exceptionally accurate rifle. I don't know why, whether it is the barrel, cartridge, or the luck of the draw.
In my 308, cartridges get ejected all over the place, many directly into my forehead. If I don't have my hat brim touching the rear sight hood, cases will hit my unprotected forehead. I have come back from matches with circular and half moon cuts on my forehead.
After I installed a 308 block insert, I had less brass shavings in the action. I guess the insert improves feeding.
There is virtually no difference in the performance of the cartridges when loaded for the gas system of the Garand.
It is my considered opinion that you will have an easier time reselling the rifle if it is in 30-06.
I have one in 308 Winchester with a 1:10 Douglas Barnett barrel. It is an exceptionally accurate rifle. I don't know why, whether it is the barrel, cartridge, or the luck of the draw.
In my 308, cartridges get ejected all over the place, many directly into my forehead. If I don't have my hat brim touching the rear sight hood, cases will hit my unprotected forehead. I have come back from matches with circular and half moon cuts on my forehead.
After I installed a 308 block insert, I had less brass shavings in the action. I guess the insert improves feeding.
There is virtually no difference in the performance of the cartridges when loaded for the gas system of the Garand.
It is my considered opinion that you will have an easier time reselling the rifle if it is in 30-06.
If you want to shoot in Garand matches go with the 30-06. Keep it stock for it's collector value. If you want to mess around with glass bedding, et cet for ultimate accuracey go with the 308. Also, this being America, you can have both ! If you buy smart you won't lose money on them.
You may use any ammo you want in a Garand, as long as you replace the stock gas plug with an adjustable gas plug. I have this one:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=777146
It simply screws in and uses an allen wrench to adjust. You can return your rifle to stock in a matter of seconds with a screwdriver.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=777146
It simply screws in and uses an allen wrench to adjust. You can return your rifle to stock in a matter of seconds with a screwdriver.
I like the .30-06, but can understand one chambered in .308. I have an adjustable gas plug, bought a bit of the Greek CMP ammo, and reload so my issues finding usable loads for .30-06 is minimal. It uses a little more powder than a .308 but it feels right. Also, being able to handload and adjust the gas plug allows for a little hotter .30-06 load if needed, though honestly, I hunt paper and broken electronics with the M1 so I don't load hot. I do think the conversion scares a lot of people from a resale point of view. I wouldn't buy one I couldn't test first in .308. That's not to say it won't be just as reliable but I want to have it proven before I would spend the money. As for accuracy, honestly, I don't think there is much difference that can be blamed from one chambering to the other. There have been plenty of accurate .30-06 rifles out there and plenty of accurate .308 rifles. With all thats going on in the cycling of the M1, given equal quality parts used for both rifles, I have troubles seeing one be more accurate in general than another. Again I'm sure there are examples of very accurate rifles in both rounds.
If you don't reload I would look at which you have better access and price to the ammo you want to use. Surplus, while often not near as accurate, is about as cheap as it gets. If you have a way to get surplus of one in better quantity and for a better price than the other, that would be a big consideration. Reloading all but evens things out.
So really, just get what you like better and enjoy it. There isn't really a wrong answer here. For some the answer is different than others so get what you like.
If you don't reload I would look at which you have better access and price to the ammo you want to use. Surplus, while often not near as accurate, is about as cheap as it gets. If you have a way to get surplus of one in better quantity and for a better price than the other, that would be a big consideration. Reloading all but evens things out.
So really, just get what you like better and enjoy it. There isn't really a wrong answer here. For some the answer is different than others so get what you like.
tkendrick
Member
Keep the M1 in '06 and buy an M1A for .308. That way you have two rifles and both in the correct calibers.
Just thinking out loud.
Just thinking out loud.
leadcounsel
member
.3006 will offer more and cheaper parts, en bloc clips, and it's the original caliber. I'd stick with the original (and I am otherwise a big fan of the .308)
Jeremy2171
Member
Slamfire..
Pull the ejector and cut 2 coils or so off the spring. The problem is the 7.62 case weighs less than the .30cal and the 7.62 brass is thrown harder/faster and the oprod hump never has a chance to "bump" the brass forward like in a .30cal rifle.
Here are two of my favorite Garands...
Top is an HRA and the other is a 2.1 mil SA.
Pull the ejector and cut 2 coils or so off the spring. The problem is the 7.62 case weighs less than the .30cal and the 7.62 brass is thrown harder/faster and the oprod hump never has a chance to "bump" the brass forward like in a .30cal rifle.
Here are two of my favorite Garands...
Top is an HRA and the other is a 2.1 mil SA.
artee
Member
308 Garand: My benifactor (State Guard Team member at time) loaned me his 308 M1 and M118 Special Ball for a 1000 yd match weekend. He gave me the rifle and ammo several weeks early, and wanted me to practice and chrono the ammo. It did 2720 fps from the M1. He had Champions (TN) put one of their Douglas 308 barrels on it, then did a 'match prep' himself on the rifle. That consisted of placing NM rear sight and NM thin front blade, ejector spring "trim" for 1:00 ejection, and glass bed. He had done this several years before I shot the rifle. Shot well, was in the 190s that weekend. It did as well as the M14s/M1As on the line.
NOTE: That barrel was CHAMBERED in 308 (or maybe 7.62), it WASN'T an "insert" barrel. And, it had the correct gas port for "308" (it's larger than for '06).
A 308 M1 is kinda rare. It's NOT easier to find or cheaper. I've seen to few examples used to say it has an advantage over an '06. In theory, it should have, but....
It uses the SAME clips as used in '06. The ammo fits a bit snugger due to less case taper in 308. For a one rifle sample, the same 2 and 5 round and SLEDs that worked in the '06 M1s worked in that one 308 M1.
Be VERY careful on Garand ammo. Most commercial .30-06 is NOT Op Rod/Garand safe. Ammo heavier than 180 grain batters the bedding and loosens it. I've seen 190s wreck a stock for accuracy over one 88 round match. The recoil of the reciever increases and an M1 has very little actual bedding area. The wood gets crushed. Glass loosens.
There is lots of Garand safe '06 data and 'philosophy' for reloading. For 308, guys assume if it's ok for an M1A/M14, it'll be OK for my 308 Garand. You can call Remington and ask if a 30-06 150 gn Corelock XYZ load is OK for an M1. You can call Remington and ask if a 165gn abc is OK in a Springfield Armory M1A. You ask them if that 308 165gn abc is OK in a 308 M1, and they'll tell you (Navy not withstanding) that they view that 308 M1 as custum/experimental and not recommend their ammo for it.
NOTE: That barrel was CHAMBERED in 308 (or maybe 7.62), it WASN'T an "insert" barrel. And, it had the correct gas port for "308" (it's larger than for '06).
A 308 M1 is kinda rare. It's NOT easier to find or cheaper. I've seen to few examples used to say it has an advantage over an '06. In theory, it should have, but....
It uses the SAME clips as used in '06. The ammo fits a bit snugger due to less case taper in 308. For a one rifle sample, the same 2 and 5 round and SLEDs that worked in the '06 M1s worked in that one 308 M1.
Be VERY careful on Garand ammo. Most commercial .30-06 is NOT Op Rod/Garand safe. Ammo heavier than 180 grain batters the bedding and loosens it. I've seen 190s wreck a stock for accuracy over one 88 round match. The recoil of the reciever increases and an M1 has very little actual bedding area. The wood gets crushed. Glass loosens.
There is lots of Garand safe '06 data and 'philosophy' for reloading. For 308, guys assume if it's ok for an M1A/M14, it'll be OK for my 308 Garand. You can call Remington and ask if a 30-06 150 gn Corelock XYZ load is OK for an M1. You can call Remington and ask if a 165gn abc is OK in a Springfield Armory M1A. You ask them if that 308 165gn abc is OK in a 308 M1, and they'll tell you (Navy not withstanding) that they view that 308 M1 as custum/experimental and not recommend their ammo for it.
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Uncle Mike
Member
Just a CYA type statement!
I have a Springfield Armory Garand in 308, got it back when SA was doing a run of the Garands in this caliber....that thing lives on a steady diet of Cavim, S.African and Radway, the op rod is fine, and she is perking along just fine, accuracy is turdish with the S African and Radway, the Cavim fairs better but the reloads makes her shine, 1.5"@100y if all the planets align.
I guess the point is, after years of eating ammo that is NOT supposed to be fed to a Garand, it is fine and dandy. Now, I would not do that to any of the match shooters I have, no sir, not the 30-06's or the 308 Match Garands, but this one particular Garand has the duty of eating trash ammo...and well, it does it!
Jeremy2171
Member
Had the parts, 7.62 was cheap and didn't have anything better to do at the time!
I get some pretty funny looks at the range when people see me sling up with an M1A and then start shoving a garand clip down into it!
Uncle Mike
Member
Hehehehe, I bet you do....that is a sweet rifle you put together.
XxWINxX94
Member
I regret getting a 30-06 because the ammo prices are crazy!!!
USSR
Member
Nope! The M1 Garand whether it is chambered in .30-06 or .308, uses the same gas system and op rod, and so, has the same port pressure constraint. The M14/M1A uses a different gas system which is much more forgiving.
Don
sonier
Member
if you want the original rifle its chambered for 30/06, if you are recoil sensitive like many and dont care about it being original grab a .308. theres a lot of hype about .308 being more accurate than 30/06 i say bull i just shot a 5 shot grouping in one solid hole that measured right at 1/2 inch at 100 yards, the rifle is a stock savage model 111 without there new bedding. point is most people find the .308 more accurate cause the 30/06 makes them flinch more, both cartridges i believe have the same accuracy potential.
far as velocity in different cartridges long as you dont exceed maxium pressure you can drive any of those cartridges pretty fast. If you worried start with low pressure loadings and work your way up too some faster stuff good luck
far as velocity in different cartridges long as you dont exceed maxium pressure you can drive any of those cartridges pretty fast. If you worried start with low pressure loadings and work your way up too some faster stuff good luck
Jeremy2171
Member
How so? At what point does the empty en-bloc clip popup out of the M1A?
Besides mine is not an "assault" rifle..it has no detachable magazine... SAFE for every state!
Pony Express
Member
Bingo. If you're worried about cost and can only buy one to begin, I would start with the m1a. Although its much more expensive to start (almost 2x according to gunbroker) the .308 ammo will be m uch cheaper to buy/shoot. From there you can figure out if thats right for you. If not, sell it and buy a garand. Or if so, buy a garand and keep the both of them!
Jeremy2171
Member
Shortened the op rod and sleeved the M14 op rod guide to fit the M1 oprod, then tweaked the follower rod and used a spring from a Tanker Garand and that was about it. This way the M1 op rod was compatible with the M14 gas system.
Not that hard really..once you started doing it...
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