Can Palm Beach County Do This??

Status
Not open for further replies.
L

LethalCep

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2011
Messages
17
Hey. So this is the story. I ordered a mosin for a website to be shipped to my local FFL dealer. After waiting they call me and say that my item is in. I go in give them my ID and he gives me a big no. He says that because i am 19 years of age that i can't receive the rifle due to the ammunition that it shoots. (***) Arccording to him the only rifles i can buy are shotguns and 22LR. But the florida law states that anyone above the age of 18 can purchase a long rifle. Now i am stuck. Can this guy do this? What should i do next?
 
That's B.S. Anyone 18 years of age or older can buy any long gun as long as it has the legal barrel length (or unless it has a "pistol grip" - Then you gotta be 21 to pick it up). I used to work at Buck's Gun Rack in Daytona Beach and sold a ton of Mosin's to 18 and 19 year olds. The ammo is 7.62x54R...Obviously not able to be used in any pistol type configuration. I would ask for clarification and if you get no where with that, ask to speak to the owner or head cheese...and then if you get no where with that, I would contact local law enforcement. Just my suggestion.
 
sappnasty said:
That's B.S. Anyone 18 years of age or older can buy any long gun as long as it has the legal barrel length (or unless it has a "pistol grip" - Then you gotta be 21 to pick it up). I used to work at Buck's Gun Rack in Daytona Beach and sold a ton of Mosin's to 18 and 19 year olds. The ammo is 7.62x54R...Obviously not able to be used in any pistol type configuration. I would ask for clarification and if you get no where with that, ask to speak to the owner or head cheese...and then if you get no where with that, I would contact local law enforcement. Just my suggestion.
Click to expand...
That's the same thing i was thinking. It's so stupid. He told me it's military ammunition and when i told him these laws he said Palm Beach County has their seperate thing. But a couple weeks ago my 18 year old friend bought a sks from the gun show down here. I think the guy is just a <deleted>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
in the state of florida: sale of any firearm or ammo from an FFL to an individual under the age of 21 is prohibited, however, you can legally own a firearm if purchased from a private seller, or if someone of legal age purchases it and "gifts" it to you.
 
Rubberberner said:
in the state of florida: sale of any firearm or ammo from an FFL to an individual under the age of 21 is prohibited, however, you can legally own a firearm if purchased from a private seller, or if someone of legal age purchases it and "gifts" it to you.
Click to expand...
That only applies to handguns.
 
Clipper said:
You're wrong. It applies to any firearm purchase from an FFL. That's Federal law, and has nothing to do with Florida.
Click to expand...
So how are other 18 or 19 year old buying rifles. Also why would the guy say I can buy a shotgun?
 
DammitBoy said:
You're wrong, it only applies to handguns, but this is the wrong place for this thread.
Click to expand...
Well this is actually my first thread here so yeah I don't know where it goes. Plus I just said it only applies to handguns the you "corrected" by saying the same thing.
 
Rubberberner said:
in the state of florida: sale of any firearm or ammo from an FFL to an individual under the age of 21 is prohibited, however, you can legally own a firearm if purchased from a private seller, or if someone of legal age purchases it and "gifts" it to you.
Click to expand...


With all due respect sir, YOU are the one who is wrong here. There is no federal law that states anybody under the age of 21 cannot purchase a gun from an FFL. As previously stated, that only applies to sale of HANDGUNS to someone under the age of 21 from an FFL.

Rubberberner said:
in the state of florida: sale of any firearm or ammo from an FFL to an individual under the age of 21 is prohibited, however, you can legally own a firearm if purchased from a private seller, or if someone of legal age purchases it and "gifts" it to you.
Click to expand...

Again as previously posted, what you said only applies to handguns, and that is federal law that has nothing to do with the state laws of Florida.
 
To the OP, there is no reason that you cannot legally have that tansferred to you in anywhere in the state of Florida. If you have already spoken with the owner of the shop, I suggest you call the ATF and let them know of the problem.
 
o Unforgiven o said:
To the OP, there is no reason that you cannot legally have that tansferred to you in anywhere in the state of Florida. If you have already spoken with the owner of the shop, I suggest you call the ATF and let them know of the problem.
Click to expand...
Thanks man will do.
 
I would advise you, you attract more bees with honey. Use the subtle approach, take in the florida laws concerning sale of a long arm (AKA rifle) and age limit. They are public documents found on the web. Advise you have spoken with ATF and give name and number to the agent. If he then wishes to refund your money so be it, make sure its all of it including shipping fees FFL fees etc.. As a dealer its his right to refuse to serve you, just vote in the future with your wallet by going elsewhere.
 
The Florida Statute Rubberberner is referring to is this one:
790.18Sale or transfer of arms to minors by dealers.
—It is unlawful for any dealer in arms to sell or transfer to a minor any firearm, pistol, Springfield rifle or other repeating rifle, bowie knife or dirk knife, brass knuckles, slungshot, or electric weapon or device. A person who violates this section commits a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
Click to expand...

What he is failing to consider is the definition of minor, which is contained in this Florida statue:
1.01Definitions.
—In construing these statutes and each and every word, phrase, or part hereof, where the context will permit:

(13)The word “minor” includes any person who has not attained the age of 18 years.
Click to expand...

Give me a minute to find Florida's preemption statute. The only firearms regulation that counties and cities in Florida can enact are waiting periods and regulating the discharge of firearms.
 
Here's your Florida pre-emption statute. It is ILLEGAL for the county to regulate the possession or transfer of firearms beyond what state law allows. State laws allow them to only enact waiting periods for handguns:

790.33Field of regulation of firearms and ammunition preempted.
—
(1)PREEMPTION.—Except as expressly provided by general law, the Legislature hereby declares that it is occupying the whole field of regulation of firearms and ammunition, including the purchase, sale, transfer, taxation, manufacture, ownership, possession, and transportation thereof, to the exclusion of all existing and future county, city, town, or municipal ordinances or regulations relating thereto. Any such existing ordinances are hereby declared null and void. This subsection shall not affect zoning ordinances which encompass firearms businesses along with other businesses. Zoning ordinances which are designed for the purpose of restricting or prohibiting the sale, purchase, transfer, or manufacture of firearms or ammunition as a method of regulating firearms or ammunition are in conflict with this subsection and are prohibited.

(2)LIMITED EXCEPTION; COUNTY WAITING-PERIOD ORDINANCES.—

(a)Any county may have the option to adopt a waiting-period ordinance requiring a waiting period of up to, but not to exceed, 3 working days between the purchase and delivery of a handgun. For purposes of this subsection, “purchase” means payment of deposit, payment in full, or notification of intent to purchase. Adoption of a waiting-period ordinance, by any county, shall require a majority vote of the county commission on votes on waiting-period ordinances. This exception is limited solely to individual counties and is limited to the provisions and restrictions contained in this subsection.

(b)Ordinances authorized by this subsection shall apply to all sales of handguns to individuals by a retail establishment except those sales to individuals exempted in this subsection. For purposes of this subsection, “retail establishment” means a gun shop, sporting goods store, pawn shop, hardware store, department store, discount store, bait or tackle shop, or any other store or shop that offers handguns for walk-in retail sale but does not include gun collectors shows or exhibits, or gun shows.

(c)Ordinances authorized by this subsection shall not require any reporting or notification to any source outside the retail establishment, but records of handgun sales must be available for inspection, during normal business hours, by any law enforcement agency as defined in s. 934.02.

(d)The following shall be exempt from any waiting period:

1.Individuals who are licensed to carry concealed firearms under the provisions of s. 790.06 or who are licensed to carry concealed firearms under any other provision of state law and who show a valid license;

2.Individuals who already lawfully own another firearm and who show a sales receipt for another firearm; who are known to own another firearm through a prior purchase from the retail establishment; or who have another firearm for trade-in;

3.A law enforcement or correctional officer as defined in s. 943.10;

4.A law enforcement agency as defined in s. 934.02;

5.Sales or transactions between dealers or between distributors or between dealers and distributors who have current federal firearms licenses; or

6.Any individual who has been threatened or whose family has been threatened with death or bodily injury, provided the individual may lawfully possess a firearm and provided such threat has been duly reported to local law enforcement.

(3)POLICY AND INTENT.—

(a)It is the intent of this section to provide uniform firearms laws in the state; to declare all ordinances and regulations null and void which have been enacted by any jurisdictions other than state and federal, which regulate firearms, ammunition, or components thereof; to prohibit the enactment of any future ordinances or regulations relating to firearms, ammunition, or components thereof unless specifically authorized by this section or general law; and to require local jurisdictions to enforce state firearms laws.

(b)As created by chapter 87-23, Laws of Florida, this section shall be known and may be cited as the “Joe Carlucci Uniform Firearms Act.”
Click to expand...

You can find Florida firearms statutes here:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ml&StatuteYear=2010&Title=->2010->Chapter 790
 
The applicable Federal law, BTW is this:

18 USC 922 (b)(1):
(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) any firearm or ammunition to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than eighteen years of age, and, if the firearm, or ammunition is other than a shotgun or rifle, or ammunition for a shotgun or rifle, to any individual who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe is less than twenty-one years of age;
Click to expand...

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html
 
crazy// you need to print out and bring in all these relevant laws. If you find you are legal, and he continues to withhold, you will have to tell him the police are next which would be terrible- last thing anyone needs is a gun shop owner going down as a two bit scammer. Only advantage in him keeping your gun for a year- either using it or reselling and restocking on your money in meantime? hopefully owner is just confused and afraid of breaking the law. But until he sees it in print himself, you can bet he wont hand it over, so you'll probably have to show him yourself
 
Palm beach gun shop owners have all gotten together and done this. They claim county ordinances, however there are none on the books. It is the same with them demanding that you purchase any ammo that you shoot on the range. The problem was that there are two main places in this area, and that's about it.

Palm Beach has tried to do stuff in the past though, such as banning firearms in parks, and other places, however I believe most of it has been taken away because they "found out" about the preemption statute.

Apparently, the change in the gun law for parks was triggered because the county finally complied with a long existing state law.

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/palm-beach-county-gun-law-please-bring-guns-palm-beach-parks-2740334.html
Click to expand...


I assume you are dealing with Gator Guns, on Military and Okeechobee. They are IDIOTS. Never believe ANYTHING THEY SAY about guns - at all - ever... They should stick to Archery.

Shoot Straight opened up on Southern, just east of the turnpike. They seem to know what they are taking about. They have a few stores throughout Florida, and from what I can tell. they don't play into the LGS BS.
 
Last edited:
Navy LT said it as well as I could.

Print out the relevant statutes and take them with you to the gun store. The only thing I can add is that there does not appear to be anything in the Palm Beach code which prevents you from obtaining a Mosin in any event: see Chapter 28 here: http://library4.municode.com/default-test/home.htm?infobase=10323&doc_action=whatsnew

If he says there is a problem with federal law, have him call the ATF 24 hour hotline at (800) 800-3855 (Toll Free).

If the gun store owner will not give it to you after 5 days, or (I apologize for sounding condescending) give it to your parents. Both of which seem like efficient solutions for dealing with an idiot. Then he is probably trying to rip you off.

In that case review s 772.11 Fla. Stat. Civil remedies for criminal acts (theft/conversion) If you have any questions PM me I may be able to help ;)
 
Whether it's legal or know, I don't know...However, I would guess that the shop owner can refuse to sell to you even if you go back in with a pile of laws printed out showing the "legality" of the transaction. I don't see that calling law enforcement will get anywhere. I can't imagine that they can force him to sell to you.
 
ColtPythonElite said:
Whether it's legal or know, I don't know...However, I would guess that the shop owner can refuse to sell to you even if you go back in with a pile of laws printed out showing the "legality" of the transaction. I don't see that calling law enforcement will get anywhere. I can't imagine that they can force him to sell to you.
Click to expand...
You are probably right. But is the shop selling him the gun, or has he already paid and the shop transferring him the gun? I have never done this, so don't know, but it seems like a different situation. I don't know though.

What I do know, is that if what the OP said about their reason for not letting him get it is true, then they are full of crap. He can't get it because of the ammo it shoots? Really? But if it shot .22lr he could? How does that even make sense...not even NJ has a law that stupid, and I doubt Florida does.
 
Even if money has changed hands, LEO won't do anything unless you can prove some sort of crime, such as fraud. Most likely the OP would have to take the shop owner to civil court to recover any lost $$ if the owner refuses to give him a refund.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
Palm Beach County official wants retired cops to carry guns
Replies
13
Views
468
R127
R
rozziboy18
  • Locked
myrtle beach carrying laws.
Replies
5
Views
470
Sam1911
S
P
  • Locked
Palm Beach County Public Shooting Park [PUBLIC MEETING]
Replies
6
Views
690
avmech
A
C
  • Locked
Palm Beach County official wants retired cops to carry guns
Replies
9
Views
665
romma
R
D
  • Locked
West Palm looks to cameras to spot crime
Replies
3
Views
268
Cellar Dweller
C
Back
Top