Old Ammo Help

The last pic is pistol cartridges, 7.65mm, .32 acp. The other cartridges not sure of.

1) 7.5x54 French
2) 7.5x57mm MAS for Model 24/29 French Machinegun? or 7.5x54 French
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FM_24/29_light_machine_gun
3)8mm Lebel rifle
4) 32 acp

The first picture (the Privi Partizan Yugoslavian 7.5mm ball) could be either 7.5x55mm Swiss, or 7.5x54mm French MAS; given that the rest of the pictures are of French ammo, it's more likely to be the 7.5 MAS.

The second box is French-produced 7.5x54mm MAS, made in 1939, on the eve of WW2.

The third picture is of a box of Kynoch (English)-produced 8x50Rmm Lebel, for the rifles and LMGs that preceeded those chambered for the 7.5x54mm MAS.

The last picture is of a box of French-produced 7.65mm Long MAS, the round that the French used for their pistols and submachine guns through both world wars; this was the cartridge that Pederson copied to make the WW1 Pedersen Device for the 1903 Springfield.

The last box is used in the MAS 1935 pistol and the MAS 1938 submachine gun, the 8mm Lebel was used in various WW1 and earlier bolt-action Lebel and Mannlicher-Berthier rifles, and a few machine guns, and the 7.5mm French is likewise used in a variety of French bolt-action and semi-auto rifles, and even a few machine guns, but it has been replaced by 7.62 NATO or 5.56 NATO today.

SDC said:

The first picture (the Privi Partizan Yugoslavian 7.5mm ball) could be either 7.5x55mm Swiss, or 7.5x54mm French MAS; given that the rest of the pictures are of French ammo, it's more likely to be the 7.5 MAS.

Click to expand...

I couldn't decide if it was 7.5 Swiss or French, then I realized that Privi Partizan uses a 174 grain bullet in their Swiss loads.

SDC said:

The second box is French-produced 7.5x54mm MAS, made in 1939, on the eve of WW2.

The third picture is of a box of Kynoch (English)-produced 8x50Rmm Lebel, for the rifles and LMGs that preceeded those chambered for the 7.5x54mm MAS.

The last picture is of a box of French-produced 7.65mm Long MAS, the round that the French used for their pistols and submachine guns through both world wars; this was the cartridge that Pederson copied to make the WW1 Pedersen Device for the 1903 Springfield.

The last box is used in the MAS 1935 pistol and the MAS 1938 submachine gun, the 8mm Lebel was used in various WW1 and earlier bolt-action Lebel and Mannlicher-Berthier rifles, and a few machine guns, and the 7.5mm French is likewise used in a variety of French bolt-action and semi-auto rifles, and even a few machine guns, but it has been replaced by 7.62 NATO or 5.56 NATO today.

Click to expand...

Good catch on the 7.65 Long Mas. That fits even better than 32 ACP.

The 7.65 French Long has a connection with the Pedersen device but the French did the copying. The "U.S. Pistol, Caliber .30, Model of 1918 (the code name for the Pedersen device) reached France too late for use in WWI, but millions of rounds of ammuntiion had already been stockpiled in France.

After the war, the French looked at that ammo and reportedly made some pistols to use it, but they felt the original cartridge was not effective enough. The result was the 7.65 French Long (the L was to distinguish it from the 7.65 Browning, aka the .32 ACP), with the same case but a longer and heavier bullet. The longer bullet means the 7.65 Long will not fit into the Pedersen device magazine, which is good because it is a bit too hot for the blowback Pedersen design.

Jim

Where the heck did you get that ammo?! Cool history lesson; I'd heard of the Pederson Device before, but this is making he hit Wikipedia for more information ...

timothy