In need of a good 9MM 147 gr load

I use 3.4 grains of TiteGroup under a Precision Delta 147 FMJ, with WSP primers. This load reliably makes USPSA minor power factor in a G17, on a cold day.

What powders other than BD do you have?

Personally I would drop the magnum primer out of the load. Blue Dot is a good performer with this bullet.
4.2 grs. to 5.7 grs. is going to deliver an estimated 750 fps to 1000 fps.
Alliant is showing only a maximum charge with Blue Dot of 6.2 grs. with estimated velocity at 1050 fps.
I'm getting an actual velocity of 1050 fps with HS6 and a powder charge of 6.2 grs. I worked up to that rather than just loading it, as it is not a listed charge and goes a bit over the maximum listed data. I avoid fast burning powder's like the plague, they just don't offer the ability to work without sudden pressure spikes always a concern.

ditto on dropping the magnum primers with bludot. if you want to keep using your mag primers, try hs6. that is as slow as i would go here.

murf

Alliant is showing only a maximum charge with Blue Dot of 6.2 grs. with estimated velocity at 1050 fps.

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That's because they expect you to read and do math if you're old enough to reload. On pg 8 of their free on line PDF data file they have this note:

The powder charge weights listed in our data tables are maximum. For rifle and pistol loads, the maximum powder charge should be reduced by 10% to establish a minimum or starting powder charge.

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XD:

I spent a considerable amount of time and effort including bulging my Hi-Power barrel looking for good heavy bullet loads in my 9mm's. I think it was the WW 231 that bulged it. Gamestalker and the others are right on about using slower powders with the heavy boolits, I think I had pretty good results with WW571 and AA#5, Unique did OK in lower charges.

If you're using an XD, they have a pretty thick chamber and locking block, and will tolerate pressure better than some guns. However, be very careful with heavy boolits in a 9mm, especially seating depth, the 9mm case just doesn't have the volume to be forgiving. The loads that bulged the barrel in my HP gave powder puff report and recoil, you wouldn't have known they were hammering the snot out of the pistol, except for the flattened primers. Watch those babies, if they flatten, stop and just pull your boolits.

Good luck

What was the load that bulged your barrel?

Didn't know a moderately hot load could bulge a barrel on its own? Thought that it is usually caused by firing into a lodged squib or one of those "detonation" anomalies.

I like Power Pistol for 147s and even have messed around with Bullseye, 231/hp-38, and Solo 1000 for quiet 147 loads.

Power Pistol is my favorite powder for jacketed/plated handgun bullets. It meters well and burns clean.

So far I've loaded and fired about 30 rounds of 147gr lead with 3.2gr Win231 and 1.145 OAL. It shot well, clean case, normal primer and the brass landed at my feet.

J_McLeod said:

So far I've loaded and fired about 30 rounds of 147gr lead with 3.2gr Win231 and 1.145 OAL. It shot well, clean case, normal primer and the brass landed at my feet.

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I think I'm just over that by .4gr with plated. About that OAL too, maybe 1.150, but that is a tiny difference.

Since the brass on the last batch was landing at my feet, I went down to 1.135, but haven't shot those yet. I really liked it, and bought a box of 500 MBC 147gr to make more.

I tried Hdy 147 gr. with Fed SP primer and 5.6 gr. Blue Dot to OAL 1.100. Shot out of a Steyr M9-A1. No pressure signs and seemed accurate enough (was just plinking).

I will try it in a couple of other pistols before deciding to stay with the load.

I think I'm just over that by .4gr with plated. About that OAL too, maybe 1.150, but that is a tiny difference.

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So are you at 3.4g w231 or 3.6g w231 with plated? I am looking for a load for some 147g Berry plated i just picked up and have a 1lb can of w231 I havent used for anything yet.

My comp load goes like this
147g Montana Gold CMJ R/N
4.7 g Power Pistol
1.150"

I'm shooting it out of a Gen3 G17 RTF2. I have found the recoil to be more of a push then a slap. I have no problem at all knocking over poppers with one shot. I played with AA#7 a little bit. I plan to work with it a little bit more when I have the time but I can't seem to find the time because I like the PP so much.
I worked with BD a little but couldn't get it to meter worth a darn so I gave up on it for now.

I've run 6.9-7.0 gr VV3N38 behind 147gr XTPs in a glock 17 and a carbine w/good luck. I did let the C.O.A.L. run a little long because I was afraid of excess pressure (1.158ish). The ave vel out of the g17 = 1130fps and the average out of the carbine was around 1340fps. Your mileage may vary. Load closer to the VV C.O.A.L. specs and you may see the magic 1200fps.

Incidently, I have used 6.3grs of BD and up to [*USE AT YOUR OWN RISK*] 6.9grs BD behind 147gr XTPs - again loaded long (1.158). I only chrono'ed through the carbine and got about 1340fps. I'd like try some 147gr FMJ RN loads because the carbine accepts "longer" FMJ RN rounds and seems to have faster performance w/FMJ RN. But that is stuff for another post.

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918:

Here are the notes I took from that shooting session:

4/17/10
9mm Workup
25 rds. 158 RNFP WW231 2.6, 2.8, 3.0, 3.2, 3.4
5 rds. Ultramax 125 Hard LRN to barrel
15 Rds. 158 RNFP 2.5 WW231

2.5 gn WW231, bullets 8" low at 50 Yds, mild recoil, like a .38, ejection 1-2' 18# spring, functioning +20 to 30%
Primers flattened 75% at 2.6 gn, 95% at 3.4 gn with some cratering. 3.0 gn seems about max. Ejection at 3.4 gn 8'-10'. WW231 burns clean with little residue.

4/18/10
25 Rds. 158 RNFP Hodgdon Universal 2.4, 2.6, 2.8. 3.0, 3.2 gns.
Recoil on 2.4 very low, primers 70-80% flat, 3.2 95% flat. 2.4 gave 2" group.


It could have been either the 231 or the Universal that bulged the barrel, I did notice that Universal has a real sudden pressure spike as the loads increase. The bulge in the barrel is at the first locking lug recess, where the steel is the most thin. It's a small bulge, I only noticed it while I was cleaning the barrel, several sessions later. The reflection looked just a little strange ahead of the chamber, I questioned what it was, after the Oh-oh, it's not, mmmmm, yup, it's a bulge. You almost can't see it from the outside, you would have to know it's there. Anyhoo, lesson learned, the bullet I was working with is a Lee 158 gn RNFP. I tested a number of slower powders as well, they are probably a better choice, however, I concluded that this bullet is just too heavy, and there's not enough case volume to accomodate it. I can get you the COL's if you want them, I beleive I seated the bullet just short of the ogive engaging the rifling. I'm gonna stick with the 125 gns in the 9mm, believe it or not, the Hi-Power will still shoot a 1 1/2" group at 25 yards with that little dimple, but I'm gonna replace it anyway, probably a Bar-Sto.

158 is a bit long for 9mm, only factory 158 gr 9mm I know if is Fiocci, IMI (and you can't find the 158 IMI any more), and PRVI (which is normally OK ammo, but I have heard to stay away from their 158 9mm like the plauge). So that basically leaves you w/ the Fiocci. Hard to duplicate. Not to mention you can't find any commercial bullets in 158 gr for 9mm (.355), they are all (.357-358). I wouldn't push .357 jacketed down my 9mm, and for that matter I wouldn't do it w/ lead either, even though you can usually oversize w/ lead.

Got Lead:

The barrel bulge is likely due to the Hi Power's two-piece barrel. A different gun would prolly have stood-up better. I hate this kind of setup.

But I agree that a pressure spike was the likely culprit. That's what happens when you play with heavy bullets and fast powders. You have to be careful. I believe Stephen Camp passed along a similar warning from his gunsmith regarding the Hi Power on his website, except he warned against 147gr ammo period.

I used to like Universal under 147's and found Hodgdon's 3.3gr max to be accurate under an XTP @ 1.100" OAL. I read about people going to 3.5grs, but they are using longer OAL's. I still like 3.6grs of 231 under a 147XTP.

USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!

I just started using 147gr bullets. So far the results are very promising.

So far, I have had best results using W231, WST, and Bullseye. I havent completed my load development yet, so these loads are still going through testing. Bullet used is the Missouri Bullet Co. 147gr LFP. OAL for all is 1.130". Pistol used is a Glock 17 with Lone Wolf barrel.

3.6gr - 4.0gr W231

3.6gr - 3.8gr WST

3.5gr Bullseye

All three of these have shown to be very accurate from 10 yards. The bullseye load is the only load that has printed POA, but the Bullseye load is snappy. The majority of my efforts have been going toward the W231 and WST loads, but they are printing about and inch high. I am still working on that. I have loaded a few W231 at 4.0gr, waiting to test those. Also looking at going to 4.0gr with the WST.

The loads I am developing are going to be used as a training load, so they dont have to be x-ring accurate. Like stated above : USE AT YOUR OWN RISK!

UPDATE: 4.0gr of W231 shot well, but was starting to get snappy. Primers were showing some pressure signs, but I am using soft federal primers. 4.0gr of WST showed to be accurate, comfortable to shoot, and printed POA. I think WST is the clear winner at this point. After firing 100 rounds of W231 and 100 rounds of WST, my G17 was surprisingly clean. Leading was limited to the last inch of the barrel.

hey Sapper, what bullets were you using, you just said 147, curious if they were lead, Plated, or FMJ...

Thanks

REL1203 said:

hey Sapper, what bullets were you using, you just said 147, curious if they were lead, Plated, or FMJ...

Thanks

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He mentioned Missouri Bullet Company, so those are lead.