9mm with 147g. Missouri Bullet getting heavy leading

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sammy

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Hello all,

I just got a new KKM barrel for my G19 and loaded up some Missouri 147g. LSWC's http://www.missouribullet.com/detail...ry=8&keywords= and need a bit of help. The load I am using is

147g. LSWC
3.1g. & 3.3g of Universal Clays
1.135 OAL
Tula Primer


I ran 10 of the 3.1g. loads first and WOW, these things were accurate. The disapointmet came when I looked down the barrel and found heavy leading 1/3 of the way down the barrel. The barrel was cleaned and the 3.3g. load had the same result but not as accurate. This was the same result with both loads.

I brought another load with another bullet make that worked well. Not nearly as accurate but no leading at all.

.356 122g. LSWC
4.0g. of 231
1.07oal
Tula primer

So what do you think? Could it be the powder? Keep in mind the start load is 3.0g. and the leading was the heaviest with the start load. I can only go up to 3.5g. of Universal but I am sure the result will be the same. Both the 122g. bullet and 147g. come in at .356.
 
I use Lone Wolf barrels in my G22/G27 in 9mm conversion and 40S&W.

The LW barrels are .355"/.400" respectively and 18 BHN Missouri Bullets sized .356"/.401" do not lead the barrel with W231/HP-38 loads (just light smearing, if any, at the chamber end).

As others posted, I would do more incremental load testing with W231.
 
The bullets you are using are 15 BHN so the pressure and velocity you would normally generate from a correct powder charge shouldn't cause a leading problem. Where did you get that load data? If it was off the Hodgdon site it's not correct data for a lead bullet. The data on their site is for a Hornady XTP bullet.

I agree with the above suggestions. Give W231 a try with those 147gr lead bullets with a charge range of 3.2gr to 3.5gr. W231 is a very lead bullet friendly powder.
 
Well I called Missouri and spoke with a nice gentleman named Fred. He states that my velocity is too low with this load. Next up I am going to try Power Pistol and 231 to see if I can get better results. I will post the findings next week when I try them. Thanks everyone! Sammy
 
I once had a Barsto barrel that was so rough inside that patch threads would pull off.

I fired some jacketed until it smoothed out.
 
sammy said:
Next up I am going to try Power Pistol and 231 to see if I can get better results.
Click to expand...
Sammy,
I would normally suggest using Longshot for your 9mm ammo BUT, it is a hot powder and can cause problems when used with lead bullets so I can't recommend it here. The reason I'm telling you this is because IMO Power Pistol is similar and really not that good with lead bullets either.

I like W231 for lead bullets in the 9mm but with heavier bullets like the 147gr bullet you are using I highly recommend trying HS-6. HS-6 works very well with lead bullets and it's accurate. I also suggest using a magnum primer with HS-6.
 
Well here is an update.

I tried a starting load of Power Pistol through a max load. They were all crazy accurate but the leading is still there. Not nearly as bad as the Universal but about 1" down the barrel was a fair amount of leading. Next up is the 231 load but I think the results are going to be the same.

Is moderate leading a safety concern? If not I am going to load these up with the power Pistol and use them up. I have 3000 of them which was stupid of me. Should have got a 500 pack to test first. Sammy

Archangelcd, the load data I am using is from the latest Lyman book.
 
sammy, suggest you make sure you get ALL the lead out of your barrel before you shoot again. any lead in the barrel will just pull more lead off the bullets as they go by. use a magnifying glass to see down the barrel, if you have to. it takes some effort to get it really clean.

murf
 
Sammy,

I recommend you slug your barrel first. That will give you your barrel's groove diameter. It is recommended that you size/buy your bullets 0.001" - 0.002" over groove diameter. If there is still leading, i recommend making some dummy rounds and pulling the bullets. The 9mm cartridge case has a nasty habit of swaging the bullet down in diameter. Basically, you start with a bullet that is the proper diameter, but when it is seated into the case, the neck tension squeezes the bullet to a smaller diameter.



If you need more info, feel free to PM me.
 
I can assure you his bullets are bigger than KKM's bore diameter. The issue is the throat, cuz that's where the gascutting is taking place.
 
I use HS6 and Longshot in my G17 with excellent accuracy and really great velocity, but with JHP's. Because those two powders produce a higher velocity round they may not work well with a LSWC, might just make your leading problem worse.
FYI, Longshot and HS6 both put me at nearly 1100 fps with a 147 gr. XTP.
I saw where ArchAngleCD is using those powders with good results, but he also states he is using a magnum primer with the HS6. I wonder if ArchAngleCD is using the magnum primer to off set a reduced powder charge?
 
Hi Sammy,

Have you slugged your barrel to determine the correct sized diameter?

Are you using a Factory Crimp Die? If you are, then set it aside when using cast bullets.

Are you using a Lyman 2-Step M Die? If not, then I would highly suggest that you obtain one.

Have you inspected your seating stem to ensure that it is engaging the ogive of the bullet? It is imperative that stem engages the bullet ogive properly.

Bullets MUST be seated pristine! Especially cast bullets! They MUST be seated perfectly square to the case mouth. And the case mouth must be prepared properly as well.

I trust that this will help you.
 
I am using a lee fcd. That would be great if it were that easy.

As for as HS-6 or Longshot I have not tried these but the Power Pistol is slower burning and gives a fairly high velocity. Very similar to the Power Pistol. It is worth a try as I do have Longshot on hand.

This weekend I have loaded up some of these with 231 but will try setting aside the fcd and try the standard one and see what happens.

Oh and what is slugging the barrel mean? I have heard this term but not sure what it means.

Thanks again everyone!!! Sammy
 
sammy said:
what is slugging the barrel mean? I have heard this term but not sure what it means.
Click to expand...
Tapping a lead shot into the barrel to measure the groove diameter of the barrel (groove-to-groove and as land-to-land is bore diameter) to determine the diameter of the lead bullet to use for proper bullet-to-barrel fit. Typically, you want to use a lead bullet that is .001" larger than the groove diameter of the barrel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CR_WiL8Dkgw

I am using a lee fcd.
Click to expand...
Your leading problem may be coming from FCD post sizing your finished rounds and reducing the diameter of the bullet. I would definitely recommend you remove the FCD for lead bullet loading until you resolve your leading issue. Also, apply just enough taper crimp (.020" over the diameter of the lead bullet) to flatten the flare of the case neck (.376" for .356" diameter bullet).
 
I wonder if ArchAngleCD is using the magnum primer to off set a reduced powder charge?
Click to expand...
No, the magnum primer is to insure proper ignition of a hard to ignite ball powder. I see very little to no velocity difference between a standard and magnum primer most times but when using a magnum primer accuracy increases and SD numbers shrink to single digits.
 
Using the Lee FCD is your 1st mistake. With lead bullets it resizes and swages the lead to a smaller diameter.
 
So if the Lee FCD is the issue, what do you use to crimp then? I have been using the Lee FCD for my 45 with no leading issues and planned on using the same for 40 and 9mm as well. Does the leading issue have to do with the lighter weight bullets as compared to the 45 or am I off track as well?
 
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