Front Sight 4-day class, need a handgun

First, call front Site and ask about the requirements for the hand gun.

Second, I assume you've been doing your homework as to which gun you like. Pick a couple autos and a couple revolvers and narrow it down from there. If Front Site allows revolvers, and that is what you prefer, go that route.

Third, don't buy a gun you on impulse. Odds are, if you rush into a purchase, you'll end up regretting the decision in the end.

Lastly, if you have to borrow or rent because you can't find/ use the gun you chose, all is not lost. You're getting a wonderful oportunity handed to you, a free 4 day class at Front Site. I'm jealous.

FrontSight doesn't have any specific handgun requirement or prohibition other than caliber size. They recommend a Glock. They love Glocks. But you can bring whatever you feel comfortable shooting.

I have made more mistakes on handgun purchases than anything else. Personally, I'd just use a rental gun from FrontSight. My favorite pistols are Sigs but that is just due to the way it feels in my individual hands. Its virtually impossible to get a CCW where I live (something like 10 issued for 1 million people in the county). If I were to have a CCW, I would go with a Glock. Again that is based on lots and lots of shooting different things and lots of consideration to other things besides how they shoot. You will have a great time.

That three-inch SP101 you're considering is a good choice-- good shooter, not too hard to carry, and solidly made. If in .357, you can carry serious rounds for defense and practice with less-pricey .38. Might want to pick up some speed-loaders for the training sessions!

I would take the class with whatever you intend to carry, and I agree that a carry gun is not something you rush into buying.

The XDm3.8 is going to carry about the same as the SP101 3" weight and size wise they are very similar.

Neither is a "pocket gun". You'll definitely need about 3-4 magazines or speed loaders for the class.

I have both the XD-40 4" and the SP101 2.25". I would hands down do the class with the XD.

I will tell you that, being your first gun, the DA revolver is much more difficult to master than the semi-auto.

[flame on] People talk about the simplicity and the reliability of the revolver being much better for new handgunners, but I can tell you from experience and from teaching NRA Basic pistol for the last 5 years, that isn't the case.

Most new shooters with a full size 9mm will put all their shots on the paper plate at 15 feet almost immediately, and get better very quickly. Shooting a 4" .357 loaded with .38 SPL -- and shooting double action -- they will have a hard time hitting the plate at all.

Correct trigger control on a DA revolver takes A LOT of dry firing practice. For someone serious about a DA revolver I would recommend dry firing at home 100 times every night for a week, using proper grip sight alignment and trigger control, then go to the range on Saturday and shoot a box... then repeat for several weeks until you "get it".

Loading and reloading drills on the revolver complicate the issue. As "simple" as the revolver is, most new shooters fumble with the controls, can't seem to understand or follow the seemingly "simple" process. Also while dry firing it's good to have a couple sets of speedloaders and dummy rounds to practice correct techniques of loading, dumping empties, and reloading, between every five shots.

Masaad Ayoob makes it look easy. It's NOT easy to do it as smoothly a quickly as he does it. It take A LOT of practice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXUwI_d8JlA

Training is a great start. As has been mentioned, putting together a carry setup that works for you will take time and experimentation.

Personally, my carry setup is very much in line with what most instructors would like their students to have when they show up for class: a semi-auto pistol, extra mags, strong belt and a good holster. I don't want to train one way, then have to fight for my life with a significantly different setup.

Trainees will be lined up next to each other, shooting at their targets at the same time. The instructor usually takes into consideration ammo capacity of trainee's guns. According to their website, they only require two reloads. So students with revolvers will run out of ammo on their body long before the students with 9mm larger capacity semi-autos.

But, there's more to it than bringing a gun.

Front Sight's equipment list: http://www.frontsight.com/FirearmTraining/front-sight.asp?Letter=I

I haven't been to Front Sight, but I noticed they mandate electronic hearing protection.

I wear tough soled boots, 5.11 pants with reinforced knee area and a billed cap (like a baseball cap). Their website "suggested" a hat, but you'll want to keep your brass and the brass from the person next to you from winding up behind your glasses or down your shirt. My cover garment is what I usually wear, an untucked Polo-type shirt (I live in a place where it's never cold). Or sometimes, I'll wear a something like an "UnderArmor" shirt tucked into my pants with my gun outside it and use a vest or a heavy untucked shirt at the cover garment. You'll want to practice like you'll carry in Wisconsin.

I also bring a range bag with cleaning equipment, extra mags, small parts, wooden dowel and small first aid kit. I bring bottled water and energy bars.

Congratulations to every law abiding citizen in Wisconsin!

P.S. If you still want to buy a gun before attending the class, here's my best suggestion:

- Go to a local range and rent semi-autos in calibers in 9mm, .40S&W and .45ACP. Note the one that feels the best in your hand and that you shoot well with.
- Buy a stiff belt.
- I want my gun concealed well and be accessible, so I use IWB holsters. Comp-TAC will ship you a Kydex CTAC or MTAC IWB holster that will arrive in a few days.
- Buy a two-mag carrier that fits mags for the pistol you decided to buy after the range rental.

I'm sure you will get other suggestions on a setup that is in a practical sense, nearly optimal.

9mmepiphany said:

Over the last two weekends I've taken out a Sig shooter and a Glock shooter and...

Click to expand...

I'll stop you right there. Very very few of my students have ever fired a handgun or even a .22 rifle.

I often use a DA trigger to help students overcome their tendency to snatch at the trigger (flinch)

Click to expand...

True, DA revolvers magnify the effect of trigger problems. But if you can master the trigger of a DA revolver, everything else is cake.

Regardless, after starting with .22s, most of them hit the center on the first shot with their first centerfire, whether auto or revolver (in single action). The second and third shots, not so much. We spend the rest of the time time helping them to apply the fundamentals of stance, grip, breath, sights, press, follow through with something that recoils and makes noise... and letting them try as many guns as they like.

After a couple hours of shooting (we divide into two groups, so one can rest and watch while the other is shooting) all of them are scoring solid hits with both revolvers (single action) and autos, but few progress to the point where they can keep their hits in DA on the paper plate. We dry fire, we do ball and dummy so they can see and feel what effect a flinch/jerk/slap has. Sometimes we go back to the .22 to get a better foundation of the mechanics.

Sorry for the threadjack...

CmpsdNoMore... Yes the 1911's can get expensive, There are a few Springfields on Gunbroker in the 4" for under $850. The XD has the same grip angle as the 1911 and that was one of the main selling features that I liked. I've shot the Glocks, M&P's, SR9's, they all work, The XD just fits better. The only reason I don't own a Ruger SR9 or SR40 is that the grip is a bit thin for me. If you like the feel of the 1911, check out the SR9/SR40 or the SR9c/SR40c. I've had the XD about 6 or 8 years now and the XD 3.8" is calling me.

My SP101 is with me for good. Just a little gunsmith work on the trigger and it's got about as good a trigger as I can ask for in a carry piece. (BTW, probably any new revolver these days that I intended for carry would have some 'smith work.) The SP101 or a S&W K-frame will carry about the same, and I would buy a .357 over a .38 J-frame just for the versatility. A 4" is too long for me to carry but 2"-3" doesn't make a difference to me. Also I would get steel over aluminum or a lightweight alloy, only because it's much nicer to shoot. In fact the SP101 with .357's feels to me that same as a S&W Airweight with .38SPL+P's. I'd also take a 3" or less Ruger Security Six, Speed Six, Service Six. My 4" Service Six is a bit long for CCW for me.

9mmepiphany said:

I think you misunderstood what I posted.

I don't use the DA trigger stroke to magnify the effect of poor trigger management, I use it to cure the tendency to jerk through the SA trigger press.

Click to expand...

No, I understood.

Front Sight can rent you an handgun there, and sell you the ammo. That is what I did when I went there a few years ago, and seemed a lot easier than trying to travel with the handgun and LOTS of ammo (your going to need like 800 rounds or so I do believe... maybe more)

After your first day you'll spend just about every spare moment loading mags.

My wife passed her ccw test using a S&W 686 a 4", at 15 and 25 she placed all on the target (8.5x11) with a 6" bull, both slow and rapid fire. While I don't disagree that a auto may be easier to master I do find fault in the remark that the revolver is a hard study. There are many shooters that "limp wrist" autos both male and females which causes a jam (smoke stack). We have 3 daughters all shooters and they have no problem with a 9mm 92 fs, the wife is unable to overcome this problem. I started her out with a S&W 617 (22lr) shooting DA, when her 686 arrived it was like a duck taking to water. In her class she was the only wheel gun shooter and unlike many others had no malfunctions. I shoot both and a 4" 357 Colt Trooper will sting with 158 g, compared to a 4" .44sp with a 200g or a .45 acp in 5" with 230g. Shoot the biggest cal you can carry, you will become conditioned to the recoil as you practice. I now carry a .45acp 3" and a .44sp 2" at times.
Jim

If you can't stand the Glocks, check out the 1911 Trojan on Dawson Precision's site. It is imported but the reviews are really good and the price is well within reason. The other suggestion I would make is to find a good used Browning Hi-Power. A little pricey these days but a great gun.

My advice - Arrange for Front Sight to supply the gun for the class.

If you take the SP-101, you will need a lot of speed loaders, I would suggest between 5 and 15.
Rent the gun.

I haven't read the thread yet.

Keep it simple. Buy a CZ P01 and tell them that if the Czech national police and NATO both aprove it, it is gun enough.

You can do the Front Sight course with a compact sized handgun or bigger.

They frown on subcompacts, but you can use it depending on what it is.

They won't let you use a pocketgun.
They use to have a "mousegun" course, specifically for pocketguns.

What you do need is a quality OWB or IWB holster and about 1000 rounds of ammo.

If you go with the revolver I hope you have very tough hands.
I've seen revolver shooters get blisters during similar courses.