Visited LGS after work

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Dustin0104

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Today I stopped by the gun shop looking for an old school Remington bolt .22. While looking around I overheard the clerk selling an elderly lady a pistol. I'm thinking wow this is great, I love to see people arming themselves! Well after I listened for a bit I figured out she was getting a smallish .380 and she couldn't rack the slide! The clerk told her that she could just leave one in the pipe and her son could clean it for her. This seems crazy to me, why didn't they sell her a revolver? Am I wrong or missing something here? How could they sell her a gun she couldn't operate?
 
Better margin on the auto? Dealer 'cheese' money gift for selling the auto?

Nah, I'd chalk it up to Counter Jockey Fail.

He should have had her try several different ones to see what she could operate properly. A tool you can't properly operate will do nothing to defend you.
 
Many salesmen do not care what happens after the sale. They only care about making the sale. This applies to salesmen in every field. It's unfortunate, but it's how the world works. I dunno, perhaps the clerk made more money off of that particular 380 than he/she would have off of selling a revolver.
 
Furthermore, old arthritic hands...

With old hands, I bet it would be easier (and safer) to shoot
a full size 38/9mm rather than a small pocket 380.
Pocket guns are so small and rotate so badly, even 380 can be difficult.
Or even impossible to control.

Let's hope she lives safely and securely, and never needs the gun.
 
What a shame. I have had to bite my tongue numerous times after overhearing bad advice.

Once I saw a young couple trying to get reasonably priced handgun for home defense and the salesman was trying to sell them a $1200 Kimber. When they kept asking them about all the other guns he kept telling them that the other guns were not nearly as good and you don't want your gun to fail while trying to protect your family.

:fire::fire::fire::fire::fire:
 
That sucks.

This is why when my mom(mid 60's) decided to get her first gun, I talked her into a 38 wheel gun.

She was 'told' by someone else to get a 9mm semi...after taking her to the range, and then bringing them home and showing her how to clean each one, she agreed with the decision on a revolver. She had a tendency to limp wrist the semi, and had difficulty racking the slide, and did not like how 'difficult' it was to clean the semi.

She is a pretty damn good shot with the 38 though....plus I felt much more comfortable with her having the wheel gun.
 
For someone with weak hands due to age and or arthritis, even operating a revolver could be to difficult a task. My Aunt lived to 98 and in her later years was virtually crippled by arthritis. The last gun she was able to shoot was a .32 Baretta with a tip up bbl. that did not have to be racked that had an aluminum "shoe" on the hammer to help her cock it.
 
Maybe you didn't hear the entire conversation. I recently sold an elderly lady a Ruger LCP and she couldn't work it very well as well. In my situation, she had been in earlier in the day with a friend who had one and she wanted the same handgun her friend had. If you had been in my shop when she actually purchased the firearm you might come to the same conclusion.

Everyone thinks the revolver is naturally easier to work and that they are more reliable. Most women new to handguns struggle with either platform.
 
First of all, the vast majority of people (even elderly females) can rack a slide. It's a matter of getting used to using that muscle set. If it is hard, have them try holding the gun in tight, holding the slide and pushing the gun forward. It's easier to push than to pull.

Having said that, there are a few people who just can't do it. My mom had an injury to her left wrist that just didn't heal very well, and she can't rack anything with a heavier spring than a .22. I narrowed it down to two options, a Beretta tip-up barrel model, or a Walther PK-380. The Walther is made on the P-22 frame and slide. particularly to have a very easy slide rack, and it does. I will be getting one for my mom soon.
 
First of all, the vast majority of people (even elderly females) can rack a slide.
Click to expand...

While that is a wonderfully positive concept, it isn't true. I would have to say that around 85% of the women that come into my store have problems with the function of a semi-auto pistol. And a clear 50-60% have problems with a revolver. Guns don't come natural to women. That being said, guys don't always do well with the function of firearms as well even though they all want to rack the slide and drop the magazine (much of the time on the floor).
 
I believe this is more than simply gender. It's the gun's ergonomics and the operator's familiarity or lack of it. I have no trouble with nearly all firearms, be they rifles, shotguns or handguns. However, the AR-15 platform vexes me. I can run the darn thing fairly effectively, but it takes a conscious effort to do so. For me, it will take a lot more training and development of muscle memory for the AR to become intuitive. I suspect this is a big part of the issues people new to handguns have.
 
It's always bothered me how many people buy a firearm with little or no idea what they are buying or how to safely use it.worse, the majority of them will never take it upon themselves to become even minimally competent.

I don't think it's a matter of women not being able to operate a handgun, be it revolver or auto. It's a matter of them never being shown the proper way. Barring medical issues or advanced age, women can operate most firearms as well as a male.

Worse, there are plenty of morons working in shops that are full of myths, half truths, and misconceptions that they are more than happy to spread.

Pretty much the only thing that can fix this are good instructors. Sadly, most won't avail themselves of a good instructor. Worse, there are many instructors that don't have a clue.
 
When I was buying my first handgun at my LGS last spring in Kalistania, the salesman told me of a little hottie attorney in her early 40's that had come back the previous week to pick up her .40 cal semi S&W (or something), after her 10 day waiting period was over. In Kali you need to have an HSC (handgun safety certificate) before you can buy a handgun. It's basically a pretty simple 30 question written test. And costs $25.00. So she had that with her at the time of purchase. Unfortunately (or fortunately?) for her, she did not know that the store is required to have her perform a 'Hands-on exercise' on loading, clearing and firing the gun with Snaps before leaving the store with it, to show that you have a general idea on operating it safely. The salesman told me that the gal tried in vain for 3 minutes to rack the slide completely.....and could not do it. He called the manager over, they had a little talk.......then gave her a full refund......
 
The ethical thing for the clerk to have done would be to recommend a class that included range time and an opportunity to try out various handguns. Then he could have told the lady to come back after deciding what suited her best, and he would set her up with the gun of her choice. But, I guess a quick sale and a commission override these sorts of ethics.

As a regular customer, it would not be out of place for the OP to have a low-key talk with the shop owner (not the salesman) and point out the goodwill that would result from such an approach, and conversely the ill will that is generated when customers realize that they've been sold something that doesn't suit them. For a local gun shop, customer goodwill is everything.
 
I don't think proper training is the issue here, the lady physically couldn't operate the slide. I would think (hope) the people behind the counter have concern for the customers but I suppose not.
 
It's not your small country gun shop, they usually have 5-6 guys behind the counter. If I ever see the owner I suppose I could say something?
 
It's also possible the lady chose it herself by basing her purchase on price. Revolvers tend to be more expensive. Not my recommended course of action, but people do it..
 
Revolver. Just avoid the problem. Every woman in my family that carries (3) carries a snub .38. Forget about the auto's, that will just discourage them, revolvers they get.
 
the salesman told me of a little hottie attorney in her early 40's that had come back the previous week to pick up her .40 cal semi S&W........The salesman told me that the gal tried in vain for 3 minutes to rack the slide completely.....and could not do it.
Click to expand...
I'm not buying it. I've taken a lot of hotties out shooting over the years and have yet to run across one that couldn't rack a slide after being shown how. A hottie in her 40's and too weak to rack a slide? Hottie and weak, two words that just don't go together. Just as it is with men, it is highly unlikely a woman in her 40's would be considered a hottie, implying being in shape, without spending time on a tennis court, in a gym or practicing Pilates or Yoga. All of these would be strength building endeavors. Personally, I'm not buying the story, sounds like more gun store bravado and more than a tad chauvenistic. But maybe it made the gun store jerk, I mean clerk, feel better telling it.
 
I saw one woman that was interested in a HK P30 how to properly rack the slide and ended up giving her more advice than the clerk who actually didn't know anything about the gun itself. She thanked me afterwards.
 
Plan2Live

Quote:
the salesman told me of a little hottie attorney in her early 40's that had come back the previous week to pick up her .40 cal semi S&W........The salesman told me that the gal tried in vain for 3 minutes to rack the slide completely.....and could not do it.
I'm not buying it. I've taken a lot of hotties out shooting over the years and have yet to run across one that couldn't rack a slide after being shown how. A hottie in her 40's and too weak to rack a slide? Hottie and weak, two words that just don't go together. Just as it is with men, it is highly unlikely a woman in her 40's would be considered a hottie, implying being in shape, without spending time on a tennis court, in a gym or practicing Pilates or Yoga. All of these would be strength building endeavors. Personally, I'm not buying the story, sounds like more gun store bravado and more than a tad chauvenistic. But maybe it made the gun store jerk, I mean clerk, feel better telling it.
Click to expand...


Uhm....Pal? You're reading waaaaaay too much into that. And are completely wrong to boot.


Got any other ESP tricks you'd like to share with the class?....
 
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