UPS Next Day Air mandatory?

NDA is required as is telling the shipping folks it's a gun. So you may as well insure them.

You may want to ask your FFL how much it would charge you to ship it. FFL's can ship USPS ground. A LOT cheaper.

AFS

AFAIK, it's a UPS / FedEx requirement, not Federal. Seems a few employees were stealing guns so the companies mandated Next Day to get the guns out of their systems as quickly as possible.
I've also heard if you don't ship NDA they'll deny your claim if it's lost even if it's insured.

I also understand they will not be insured because I am not declaring the proper contents ...

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Bzzzzt. From the ATF website's FAQs:

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

{18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30}

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The FFL I use charges me $20 to ship it USPS, plus whatever USPS charges, way cheaper then UPS/FedEx NDA in most cases.

Due to the cost of shipping a handgun via UPS or Fedex overnight, I have begun using my local gun shop to send FFL to FFL USPS. They do it for $40 for me while UPS is currently about $90. What a rip off.

It is a rip off by FedEx and UPS since they ship Ground for manufacturers.

Fed ex is ups

UPS bought FedEx some time back and that's one of the few reasons shipping has gone through the roof (monopoly). What ticks me off is that UPS has a deal with the USPS to drop off packages at the local PO instead of a door to door delivery. I've ordered non ffl items and charged for UPS to deliver only to find out they where sitting at the PO for two days.

UPS bought Fedex????

I believe that UPS changed the policy a little while back to requiring 2nd day air delivery, not NDA. I would check to make sure as I don't have experience with shipping this way. As an FFL, I always use USPS.

UPS bought FedEx some time back and that's one of the few reasons shipping has gone through the roof (monopoly).

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can you provide a link?

because nothing in my extensive google searching ( and my google-fu is unmatched) has been able to verify this.

With all due respect, UPS definitely did not purchase FedEx

jlmdlm said:

I believe that UPS changed the policy a little while back to requiring 2nd day air delivery, not NDA. I would check to make sure as I don't have experience with shipping this way. As an FFL, I always use USPS.

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UPS and FedEx require Next Day service non-FFL to FFL. They used to allow 2nd Day service but they no longer do.

AFAIK neither will not ship non-FFL to non-FFL within the same state, even though it is lawful to do so.

My FFL charged me $34 for the last USPS shipment, $20 fee and $14 for small flat-rate box with insurance. One thing to keep in mind with USPS is their cost to insure is significantly greater than either UPS or FedEx. Yes you can ship a small flat rate box for $5 but insure the contents for $600 and the cost goes up quite a bit, also add adult signature required fee. No matter what, it's a better deal than UPS or FedEx.

crossrhodes said:

UPS bought FedEx some time back and that's one of the few reasons shipping has gone through the roof (monopoly). What ticks me off is that UPS has a deal with the USPS to drop off packages at the local PO instead of a door to door delivery. I've ordered non ffl items and charged for UPS to deliver only to find out they where sitting at the PO for two days.

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NOT

F-111 John Quote:
I also understand they will not be insured because I am not declaring the proper contents ...

Bzzzzt. From the ATF website's FAQs:


Quote:

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

{18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30}

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BZZZZZT.....read the citations to Federal law at the bottom of the FAQ you quoted. No such Federal law, the FAQ is wrong.

dogtown tom said:

BZZZZZT.....read the citations to Federal law at the bottom of the FAQ you quoted. No such Federal law, the FAQ is wrong.

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I will even help him read it:

§ 922. Unlawful acts
(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

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Since the package would be going to a licensed dealer, notification to the carrier is NOT REQUIRED by law. It is only required by UPS and FEDEX company policy.

In a case where notification to the carrier is required (going out of state to a private party), the notification must be in writing, just telling the counter person the package contains a gun does not meet the requirement in Federal law.

FFLs can also mail handguns via US Post Office to each other, private parties are prohibited.

Keep reading:

(c) No common or contract carrier shall transport or deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge
or reasonable cause to believe that the shipment, transportation, or
receipt thereof would be in violation of any provision of this part:
Provided, however, That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply
in respect to the transportation of firearms or ammunition in in-bond
shipment under Customs laws and regulations.

(d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written
acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other
container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph
shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger
who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the
trip.

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In order for the common carrier to comply with parts c and d, they have to be notified that the shipment contains a firearm.

"Keep reading:


Quote:
(c) No common or contract carrier shall transport or deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition with knowledge
or reasonable cause to believe that the shipment, transportation, or
receipt thereof would be in violation of any provision of this part:
Provided, however, That the provisions of this paragraph shall not apply
in respect to the transportation of firearms or ammunition in in-bond
shipment under Customs laws and regulations.

(d) No common or contract carrier shall knowingly deliver in
interstate or foreign commerce any firearm without obtaining written
acknowledgement of receipt from the recipient of the package or other
container in which there is a firearm: Provided, That this paragraph
shall not apply with respect to the return of a firearm to a passenger
who places firearms in the carrier's custody for the duration of the
trip.

In order for the common carrier to comply with parts c and d, they have to be notified that the shipment contains a firearm. "

If they aren't notified, they don't know and do not need to comply with parts c and d.

saw a gunsmith website regarding shipping guns to him. he suggests making gun inoperable and shipping as machined parts--ie ship a `1911 with slide, barrel disassembled from frame. perhaps others could opine?

kimbershot saw a gunsmith website regarding shipping guns to him. he suggests making gun inoperable and shipping as machined parts--ie ship a `1911 with slide, barrel disassembled from frame. perhaps others could opine?

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It is internet myth that if you disassemble a gun it somehow becomes "machine parts" and no longer a firearm.
That "gunsmith website" and anyone else that spreads that myth are idiots.

A firearm frame, receiver, AR lower, etc is still a firearm under Federal law whether it is assembled or not.

Some believe that its a good idea to tell USPS/UPS/FedEx that you are shipping "machine parts" in order to avoid their policies on firearms........failure to follow the common carriers tariff (policies) means that in the event of loss, damage or theft you will get nada on an insurance claim. Fail to follow USPS regs and you'll be criminally charged and subject to at least a fine.

I was completely, totally, and 100% WRONG.

Notification of the carrier is NOT required when shipping to a licensee.

Wikipedia has the ATF letter stating as such: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/BATFE_shipping_letter.jpg

My apologies for distributing incorrect information.

Learn a little every day

AFS

I guess the question now is would anyone box up a firearm and send it ground via FedEx or UPS to a licensee? We know it's against company policy, we know insurance, even if purchased, is likely uncollectible, unless they simply lose the shipment and the shipper lies about the contents. And, who knows if the carrier gets suspicious and X-Rays the box, discover's it's a handgun and returns it without a refund.

Seems too risky to me, I'd still pay an FFL to handle it and get a good night's sleep.

For you who ship "machine parts" read what "Quinn" was convicted of in federal court. I'm sure the judge was applying federal law, not UPS/FedEx policy.http://www.ledgernews.com/news/503-...nts-sentenced-in-federal-gun-trafficking-case

Do yourself a favor and call a few FFL holders. FFLs can ship USPS priority mail. IMO the easiest thing to do is find one that ships cheap, drop off your gun, and let them drop it in a flat rate box and send it on its way. Last time I did this it was $20/gun. No ridiculous overnight shipping charges and no waiting at a counter.