Reasonably priced over-under

My math was to illustrate how much X number of shells could run if one was so inclined to shoot that many rounds and certainly wasn't meant as a slam to anyone. Some folks take great pleasure in skeet, I do but on a much smaller scale, and do it a LOT. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on one's take) I got hooked on collecting Colt handguns.....it isn't a cheap hobby but my sweet wife doesn't mind as long as the bills are paid

Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on one's take) I got hooked on collecting Colt handguns....

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Peacemakers, Tunderers/Lightenings, DA stuff like Snakes, 1911s???????

I think it'd be way cool to have some '73s in a collection, but I ain't got that kinda dough. Love the peacemakers, though, probably my age and all the westerns I watched on TV and the silver screen. I've got blackhawks, I've got cap and ball replicas, still need a '73 replica I guess.

Yeah, no matter what ya get the shells at, 60,000 a year is more than I could spend on ammo and reloading that much would be a 24/7 job. I do NOT find I can reload any cheaper than buying bargain ammo at Wallyworld, though. Don't bother with 12 gauge, but do have an MEC set up for my 10 gauge, can save on THAT.

But, for thems that are into it and can afford it, if it's your thing, knock yourself out. Hell, I've wasted TONS of money racing motorcycles over the years. Can't take it with ya. Everyone has his thing. I just get a little put off when someone tells my my Spartan won't hold up to the punishment. Well, I'm thinkin' it WILL hold up to MY punishment (uses). It's a well made gun, just plain as hell and sorta fugly to look at. It does what I want and if it breaks and I can't fix it, hell, it was only $299+tax. I've already gotten that much use out of it and it's still going strong. It does what I wanted it to do and more. I didn't really expect it to be such a good dove gun considering it's a 20" barrel gun and quite light and whippy. Turns out I love the thing.

I found some Spartan O/Us at Gander Mountain on sale a couple of years ago, didn't consider one after I tried mounting and swinging 'em, WAY too little stock drop for me. I'm happy with my SxS after shimming it as much as I can, which isn't as much as can be done with a pump or something. But, I've got the fit pretty decent now. That's important to me, far more important than holding up to half a million rounds, something I'll never accomplish with the years I have left. I don't worry much about buying a repeater, not about fit, know I can shim it to fit. But, a stack barrel, not so much if it's very far off. This is the same reason I didn't get a Yildiz.

bdjansen said:

Holy crap! A lot of people on this forum have way too much money!

I imagine they are shooting all this ammo off the deck of their yacht while sailing in the Caribbean. Or at least that's what I'd be doing.

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Hardly... I work my tail off! I'm at my office by 7am at my day job, work PT at another, and own rental properties that I manage myself... I keep a schedule that most couldn't manage, and still manage to find time to shoot, hunt & fish.

To quote the late concert promoter Bill Graham "I drive a Jaguar and my family eats well because I work HARD".

Shooting is my therapy. I don't drink, I haven't been in a bar in ages, we rarely eat out, I've never been in a strip club, my daily driver is 11 years old, etc... Yes, I make a comfortable living, but it's all a matter of priorities.

MCgunner said:

Peacemakers, Tunderers/Lightenings, DA stuff like Snakes, 1911s???????

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My first Colt was a reblued '68 Trooper and I fell in love with the action so I got a Python and another Python, another Trooper but all original this time...um...some Police Positives, Police Positive Specials, couple of Frontier Scouts, Detective Special, Model 1903 & 1908 semi auto's, Officers Model Target, couple of Offical Police.....most of my collection is the swing out cylinder dating anywhere from 1912 to 1978. Nothing from 1979-present as I love the workmanship of the older Colts. I shoot em all except a NIB K series Nickel Frontier Scout.

During our winter league skeet shoot, we saw a shooter who had a Stoeger fall apart in his hands. The look on his face was priceless. The barrel fell off from the receiver.The puller told him , you get what you pay for. We have seen some good guns have problems but never fall apart. There is a lot of great used shotguns out there ( SKB, BROWNING ) for a good price. You might start by checking your local gun club ,most have a for sale by owner board. Good luck.

Originally Posted by bdjansen View Post
Holy crap! A lot of people on this forum have way too much money!

I imagine they are shooting all this ammo off the deck of their yacht while sailing in the Caribbean. Or at least that's what I'd be doing.
No kidding..

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I don't do 60K, but i do manage about 15K per year - no yachts, but I do cruise the Caribbean at least once per year......

As drsfmd said - it is all about your personal priorities =- I don't play golf, I shoot

During our winter league skeet shoot, we saw a shooter who had a Stoeger fall apart in his hands. The look on his face was priceless. The barrel fell off from the receiver.The puller told him , you get what you pay for. We have seen some good guns have problems but never fall apart. There is a lot of great used shotguns out there ( SKB, BROWNING ) for a good price. You might start by checking your local gun club ,most have a for sale by owner board. Good luck.

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I find this hard to believe. It just came apart, like the welds all broke or something? Really? I don't own a Stoeger, just sounds a little tall to me. I'd like to know WHAT on the gun failed so I could understand it better than "it was a cheap piece of crap and fell apart". Did a weld fail on the barrel lug? Did the barrels split? Odd.....

MCgunner said:

I find this hard to believe. It just came apart, like the welds all broke or something? Really? I don't own a Stoeger, just sounds a little tall to me. I'd like to know WHAT on the gun failed so I could understand it better than "it was a cheap piece of crap and fell apart". Did a weld fail on the barrel lug? Did the barrels split? Odd.....

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I've seen two of them "fall apart" on the skeet field. One had the tab for the forend break loose from the barrel, the guy opened the gun and it literally fell apart. The other had the forend split and the guy was left with 4 pieces in his hands as he walked back to the clubhouse.

The Stoeger and some of the other cheap imports are simply awful guns with horrifyingly high failure rates. I've illustrated both of the "fall aparts" I've witnessed, but I can't even begin to document all of the cheap doubles I've seen break on the skeet field...

I'm still trying to figure out how any company can build an O/U for $90 more than a Remington Express Magnum pump.

Or to put it another way, for $200 less than a Wingmaster pump.

John

I checked CDNN for the Lanber prices. Even discounted they're way over $400.

2097 Sporting 639.99/679.99
2097 Sporting Lux 649.99/699.99

I'm still trying to figure out how any company can build an O/U for $90 more than a Remington Express Magnum pump.

Or to put it another way, for $200 less than a Wingmaster pump.

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With the cheapest materials available using some lowly paid un to semi-skilled worker where things like health care, taxes, and unions do not exist. Of course, the quality issue has yet to resolve itself.

When it comes to guns, and especially double guns, you get what you pay for

See these:

http://www.allans-armory.com/aapictures.php?ItemId=210316SG

I'm sorry Mcgunner didn't believe me. Thank you drsfmd , for letting him know that this indeed did happen. The next time I post anything I'll try and be more precise . The person who Stoeger came apart, was due to the tab on the front end. I called him today and he confirmed it. He now owns a Browning over and under.

I checked CDNN for the Lanber prices. Even discounted they're way over $400.

2097 Sporting 639.99/679.99
2097 Sporting Lux 649.99/699.99
===

Too bad they ran out of 2087s. Mine is nice enough for me. I think it was 5 or 550.

I think CDNN has some left, but they're still not a $400 gun. Well, they might be a $400 gun for $550. Just kidding.

"See these:"

Spanish Azhur Armas. I wish I had some of my gun books at the office so I could look this up.

I like the part of the description about being able to read the importer's mark on the inside of the bore about halfway down and how it looks like a "small ding". But for $225 you can't lose but so much on a worn gun made in 1998.

"Repaired fore grip with some wood missing"

www.allans-armory.com/aaresult.php?PageId=68

John

edited to add: Azhur Armas, S.A. used to be Ascensio Zabala. Fwiw.

chas08 said:

I'm not sure I've shot 60,000 shotshells in my lifetime. But then I'm only 56 and I didn't get started till I was 10.

I average 750 -1000 rounds a year total for my annual take of Doves, Ducks, & Geese these days. The two to three hundred doves I take a season accounts for the lions share of rounds expended. I guess by your standards, I could own a gun 30 years and it still would not have proven itself durable.

You were right about VERY different standards. Just like the guys with Perazzis and Krieghoffs who think the guys with Brownings and Berettas wasted their money.

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Thing is you have to match the tool to the job, I wore out several cheaper shotguns before I tried a K80 and would have been money ahead to just start with the high quality gun to begin with. I used to shoot 300-400 rounds on league nights and up to 1000 on weekends twice a month. Maybe a lot more if we were having fun

If you are planning on spending less than $1000 on a new O/U STOP.

Take your money into the bathroom open the lid and flush the bills down the toilet.

Nothing snobby about it. I've seen far too many problems with economy autoloaders as well as O/U's. You'll pay for it in the field when your shotgun breaks and ruins your day.

Since Lanber is mentioned specifically, they are total pieces of CRAP. I had to loan my backup autoloader to one of my friends kids who's Lanber broke in the dove field. Luckily I always have a backup, otherwise the kids out of State hunt would have been ruined.

There should be decent, less expensive, options on the used market for you, SKB Browing, Beretta are usually always good and available used.

I'm sorry Mcgunner didn't believe me. Thank you drsfmd , for letting him know that this indeed did happen. The next time I post anything I'll try and be more precise . The person who Stoeger came apart, was due to the tab on the front end

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Okay, I can see that. The piece is probably spot welded by machine or something, not sturdy.

My old Spanish Sarasqueta SxS that I bought in 1971 at Cooks Discount in Bryan, Texas going out of business sale for 100 bucks is still going. The forearm did split, hard use in the salt marshes over the years. Functionally, it never broke, but a lot of years of hard use and it's not nearly as pretty as it was when I bought it. The hand checkering is all worn, the nice walnut a little less nice, but it still shoots!

My Spartan SxS is the only other double I own and it's only about 4 years old, still going strong. But, I don't put 60K rounds a year through it. Does exactly what I wanted of it, though,for 300 bucks investment. I cannot knock it.

Stoeger, well, I've never been tempted, but I hear from CAS guys that they hold up well, why I was a little skeptical of the "fall apart" thing. These guys shoot a lot of rounds, but probably not as much as an avid clays guy does. When I shot IDPA, I only had to take along 150 rounds or so and these guys are shooting 3 guns in a match, rifle, revolver, and shotgun, so I bet their round count isn't MUCH higher than mine shooting doves in a season, but they do shoot all year I guess.

I'm not being argumentative that cheap is the way to go with a double, just that they can have merit to SOME shooters. I don't wanna toss mine, put it that way. If and when I get a stack barrel, though, I should be in the position to look for a Browning which is what I really want even if they are Japanese made. They aren't THAT expensive when you look at the price of a similar quality SxS after all.

Since Lanber is mentioned specifically, they are total pieces of CRAP.

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I think you are totally wrong. Ive owned my 2087 since late '02 or early '03, have at least 5-6 K rounds through it, all in the field hunting. I don't shoot clay, it bores me to tears after about 25 shots. I've never had a single issue.

I do feel that way somewhat about benelli sbe1's. Mine had two firing pin failures about three years apart with far less than half that round count through it since it was primarily bought to hunt waterfowl.

Which was the better value? The ten year old trouble free Lanber for $470 or the six plus year old benelli for near $1200 at the time. You can have trouble with any and all. To generalize and say they're all Crap is ...well ...wrong.

The forearm did split, hard use in the salt marshes over the years.

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Thought I'd mention, there's NO PARTS for old Sarasquetas, have looked. The gun isn't worn action wise significantly, so I've thought of getting new wood made for the gun, expensive, but what I did to continue using it (the forearm split toward the rear) is drill through it and glue in a dowel, then refinish. Actually, the work isn't real noticeable, but the fore end is battered anyway.

I'm still considering getting wood made for the old gal sometime if I can find a good stock maker. I'll have it fitted, of course. I can still use thise old shotgun for some things even though the chokes are mod/full, use Spred-R inserts or maybe get the chokes opened up to IC/Mod. It's a project for the future. This old shotgun is superbly regulated, too. With slugs it kicks like the hammer of Thor, but it hits right together on the bull at 50 yards, like a double rifle.

~$500 SKB 600 12ga, good deal? I found one local that looks pretty sweet. Has some use marks, but felt good.

Spanish Sarasqueta SxS

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Sarasqueta is a good brand that is well-made

If i was looking for a good O/U shotgun, i'd save until i had closer to $600.00 and find a nice used near new Valmet 412. They are good shotguns, that last and last.

DM