.38 super or 10mm for defense?

Personally I like the 10mm much better. It is much more versatile in my opinion. Anything I need to do with a 9mm bullet can be accomplished with standard 9mm rounds instead of 38 super.

Both rounds (nearly all, for that matter) will be plenty accurate for self-defense, and both are capable of providing more than enough power. For a 1911, keep in mind that there will be more options in .38 super than 10mm. This will likely translate into a notably higher cost firearm for the latter.

To me, neither has any cons that are real deal-breakers - go for whatever you're leaning towards.

so why not use one of these potent 9x19mm loads, scaled up to the size of the .38 super case which would give you a muzzle energy of 650-700FPE and still be within the limits of the case, and the pistol itself?...

Click to expand...

Because you start to blow out the case head. People were running into this with 38 Super while trying to make Major PF before the minimum was lowered. This lead to the creation of 9x23 Winchester, which is very similar in size to 38 Super but can run at much higher pressures.

AFAIK you will not find either caliber chambered in a 4 inch gun. You will have to have a custom gunsmith build one for you.
I would go with the 9x23 rather than .38 super, you can buy factory ammo that has the oomph you are looking for.
The first 10mm 1911s (Colt Delta Elite) suffered from cracking, I doubt a shorter barrel gun would have a longer life as it wil have less slide mass to absorb recoil and prevent frame battering.

There is a dealer here in Australia who regularly reams .38 super barrels with a 9x23 reamer. He told me that he could then run both cartridges.
I simply bought a spare 9mm barrel to go with my .38 super barrel. No other changes required other than adjusting the extractor.

Some people shoot one out of a barrel made for the other, but the chamber dimensions are different so I wouldn't recommend it. Reaming a 9x19 barrel with a 9x23 reamer will work perfectly, reaming a 38 Super barrel won't do the same as the 38 Super chamber is slightly larger at the mouth. I've for a 9x23 reamer I've used to convert 9mm barrels.

Remember, 9x23 is a tapered round similar to 9x19 where 38 Super is straight walled.

im looking to get a 1911 for a self defense handgun.. probably 4" barrel, single-stack grip.. and well, i was wondering what would be the better choice?.. 10mm, or .38 super?...

Click to expand...

No. In a 4" 1911 self defense handgun, .45 acp is the way to go. 10mm is too much for the frame to sustain, and .38 super (while a fine target round in a 5" gun) might as well be a 9mm. The 1911 was designed for the .45acp, and functions best with it. Everything else is a deviation from design parameters, and require extra work to function well. When you are building up a range pistol, you can afford to deal with the issues caused by using other cartridges, but when 100% reliability is required - and stopping power is also required - the .45 acp is the cartridge of choice. It's also a pleasant gun to shoot, and ammo is widely available.

My father-in-law has recently started shooting pistols, and he bought a couple 9mms and a 45acp Commander. He'd always bring the 9mms to the range, never the Commander. One day I got him to try one of my .45s, and he was surprised at the mild recoil. The Commander was there the next trip, and now he likes it best.

Well, all the talk about custom work and odd barrel lengths for a 1911 aside (might want to recall the KISS principle) either cartridge will stop a human being. The 10mm with full loads is more powerful but that means it kicks harder. I recall when the 10 came out many experienced shooters objected to the harsh recoil.

I like the Super and own a couple. Mainstream factory ammo has been down graded to the old 38 ACP level in recent years. For defense I want a full load (traditionally a 130 at 1250 FPS but factory ammo in my tests now runs 1080) so either specialty ammo makers or hand loads. I load 115 JHPs at 1425 in my guns.

I have owned 1911s in .45acp, 9mm, 10mm, and .50GI. I have not yet owned a .38 Super...I may one day, but so far have not been able to justify it.

In my experience, a 9mm 1911 is...um, okay...if you want to save money on ammo. To buy a 1911 in 9mm just to save mobney on ammo? Nah.

The real advantage of any 9mm is the ability to either carry a really small light pistol, or to maximize magazine capacity. The 1911 excels at neither.

A 10mm 1911 is a fun handgun, but the recoil makes it somewhat less conducive to quick, accurate follow-up shots. At best, you gain one round over a .45acp. At worst, the recoil may shorten frame life dramatically (alternately, you can shoot 10mm "lite" load which approximate 40 S&W loads...why bother?).

Once again IMHO, the best use of a 1911 is in .45acp. There is at least one good reason that the 1911 has survived 100+ years. It is a very effective combination of platform and cartridge.

AFAIK you will not find either caliber chambered in a 4 inch gun.

Click to expand...

DW CBOB 10mm.

less frontal area at similar energy levels would mean deeper penetration if neccessary,

Click to expand...

All else being equal, yes. But you have to remember sectional density and momentum, too. The 10mm is well known for it's astonishing penetration. In point of fact, on several mediums, it penetrated deeper than my .50 AE making twice the energy.

powerful enough for a deer at 25 if desperate enough,

Click to expand...

The 10mm is definitely the better choice for critter defense and hunting applications.

There's also the 9x25 Dillon, if you want a really wicked 9mm round. Second only to the 9mm Win Mag, and not by much.

If you are thinking about hunting deer-sized game with your new pistol, you better check your local game laws. !0mm Auto and (maybe) .45 ACP are probably the only legal auto-pistol calibers based on energy in many states, .38 Super almost certainly not.

Both calibers have their strong points and limitations and I carry both depending on the environment I'm in. Both calibers reach their potential through handloading, the Super is limited by 9mm designs such as the 124gr/GD/XTP that become unreliable in the high 1300s to low 1400s. This can be over come by loading the 357 SIG 125gr Gold Dot or the 357mag 125gr XTP at Sig and magnum velocities.

When there are large feral boar tracks on the property I'll switch my every day Super carry to either a 357mag Keith bullet or 10mm 200gr WFNs.

VihtaVuori N105 burns great in the Super and it takes the 125gr XTP to high 1400s with pressures under 33,500psi according to VihtaVuori data. For what ever reasons, the Super has been used more times against vermin than all other calibers combined and has given hammer of Thor performance every time. The longest shot taken was this past winter when a coyote changed direction and advanced upon myself and German Shepherd. Coyotes are notoriously unpredictable with dogs and I took the shot at 95 yards from a Colt 1911 Government.

Mountain lions frequented often, three separate cats with the largest having 6" wide footprints and this is the main reason I prefer the Super over the 10mm; fast recovery times for follow up times.

Take a 357mag bullet at factory 357mag velocities combined with the recoil of a G17 and one gets the opportunity to place multiple shots on fast moving vermin w/o recoil/muzzle flip obscuring the target.

Edarnold said:

If you are thinking about hunting deer-sized game with your new pistol, you better check your local game laws. !0mm Auto and (maybe) .45 ACP are probably the only legal auto-pistol calibers based on energy in many states, .38 Super almost certainly not.

Click to expand...

Here in the Show Me State, any center fire firearm with a max cap no greater than 10+1 (rifle OR handgun) is eligible for use in the firearms deer season.

As long as you're going to be betting, bet you life on the most powerful pistol you can reliably and consistently shoot accurately. Of course that assumes all the guns you're considering are mechanically reliable.

If that's a 38 Special, then so be it. If it's a full house 10mm or 357 Magnum or 357 Sig then choose one of them.

Noise alone never stopped anybody; a hit with .22LR (maybe several hits) is far better than a loud bang in the living room from a miss with a 44 Magnum.

while the 38 super is an interesting round and quite capable for defense against human attackers, id go with the 10mm because you can get low power loads from just better than .40cal up to full power 10mm and anything in between. plus i can find in my area 10mm on the shelf more readily than 38 super.