P22 broke....again

S&W/Walther quality in general has declined in recent years - The same can be said for most other companies as well. Probably has something to do with the increased demand.

send invoice copy requesting full refund.

FREERANGETIME! said:

Well I guess it was just a matter of time considering the problems I had with the one that went to the factory for repairs 3 times before they replaced it with the one that broke Saturday. Not sure what happened, hammer stops at half cock when the trigger is pulled and the safety will not engage, contacted S&W this morning, they are sending me a postage paid return label and told me they would determine if its a repair covered under warranty when they get a chance to look at it. Meanwhile the Ruger I have that was made in 1969 still eats everything I feed it, go figure?

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Bull. I've had S&W do mod work for free, so don't let up, or let them give you that BS that you will be charged. Good luck!

FREERANGETIME! said:

Well I guess it was just a matter of time considering the problems I had with the one that went to the factory for repairs 3 times before they replaced it with the one that broke Saturday. Not sure what happened, hammer stops at half cock when the trigger is pulled and the safety will not engage, contacted S&W this morning, they are sending me a postage paid return label and told me they would determine if its a repair covered under warranty when they get a chance to look at it. Meanwhile the Ruger I have that was made in 1969 still eats everything I feed it, go figure?

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There's a message in there somewhere, I think.

That sucks, I have two P22's, mine and my wifes. Mine has over 8k rounds and no fractures or problems what so ever. My wifes has less than 1k rounds and is more picky on ammo. I hate to hear that. I would not let up on them until it is fixed or replaced. I wondered about the quality, is it manufactured by S&W, I was under the impression they were made by Walther/Umarex.

S&W/Walther quality in general has declined in recent years - The same can be said for most other companies as well. Probably has something to do with the increased demand.

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The P22 is made by neither S&W or Walther. It is made by Umarex.

Walther quality is better than it's ever been. All of the Ulm-manufactured Walthers (P99AS, P99c, PPQ, and PPS) are among the very best pistols you can buy in their respective classes.

Fishbed77 said:

The P22 is made by neither S&W or Walther. It is made by Umarex.

Walther quality is better than it's ever been. All of the Ulm-manufactured Walthers (P99AS, P99c, PPQ, and PPS) are among the very best pistols you can buy in their respective classes.

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As far as the Umarex/S&W/Walther thing - it is what it is - see the statement you quoted

The same can be said for most other companies as well.

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As far as quality goes - you're entitled to your opinion - I've got experience with several newer Walther guns, as well as more than a few older models - I very much prefer the older models. I never once had to send my PPK in for service during the 14 years I had it for example. I know at least a handful of Walther owners that would agree with me.

Fishbed77 said:

The P22 is made by neither S&W or Walther. It is made by Umarex.

Walther quality is better than it's ever been. All of the Ulm-manufactured Walthers (P99AS, P99c, PPQ, and PPS) are among the very best pistols you can buy in their respective classes.

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Umarex OWNS Walther. Wonder what that means.

Anyone who thinks the Walther's quality "is the best it's ever been" is kidding themselves.


No way does their current production come even close to the quality of 20 or even 10 years ago. This is a company in decline and being bought up and owned by a pellet gun company that wants to use their name has not helped matters.

Walther quality remains solid. Take a good look at the current PPQ, a high-quality firearm. Take a good look at the P99, which is an excellent handgun today and which has been an excellent handgun since its introduction a decade ago. Umarex has done Walther no favors, to be sure, and the P22 and PK380 is good examples of that. But the pistols that are still made in Ulm are just fine, thank you.

S&W/Walther quality in general has declined in recent years - The same can be said for most other companies as well. Probably has something to do with the increased demand.

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I'd be interested in what experience you've had with the quality of their products that would make you say this.

Anyone who thinks the Walther's quality "is the best it's ever been" is kidding themselves.


No way does their current production come even close to the quality of 20 or even 10 years ago. This is a company in decline and being bought up and owned by a pellet gun company that wants to use their name has not helped matters.

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If we were to judge all of Walther's quality by the P22 then I would agree with you. Everything I've heard about the P22 gives me the impression that it is a piece of junk. But it is not made by Walther, it is made by Umarex, who owns Walther and puts the "Walther" name on their P22 pistol. It would be like judging Sig solely on the quality of the Mosquito.

Please explain to me how the quality of Walther pistols is in decline. Their PPS, P99, PPQ, and their other models of pistols bearing the Ulm proofmark will compete with any pistols in their respective classes, in quality, durability, reliabilty, accuracy, etc.

The PPS, P99, and PPQ were all designed and built by Walther in Ulm, AFTER Umarex had already bought Walther in 1993. The PPQ was released 18 years after Umarex purchased Walther. How long are they planning on waiting until they bring the quality down on Walther pistols?

Walther quality remains solid. Take a good look at the current PPQ, a high-quality firearm. Take a good look at the P99, which is an excellent handgun today and which has been an excellent handgun since its introduction a decade ago. Umarex has done Walther no favors, to be sure, and the P22 and PK380 is good examples of that. But the pistols that are still made in Ulm are just fine, thank you.

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I agree.

Umarex OWNS Walther. Wonder what that means.

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Nothing, when it comes to the quality of the guns made by Walther at the Walther factory in Ulm, Germany (P99, PPQ, PPS). Those pistols are some of the best money can buy, period.

A good comparison would be the period when Ford owned Jaguar. Did that make all Jaguars Fords? No. They were still made by Jaguar in the Jaguar factory, and during this time, quality and market sales increased substantually.

A notable exception was the Ford-built "Jaguar" X-type, which was a re-skinned clone of the Ford Mondeo (US market Contour), which was a lower-quality car that happened to tank commercially for Jaguar (largely because folks knew it wasn't a "real" Jaguar).

You can think of the P22 as the firearms equivalent of the X-Type, except it has been very successful commercialy, as it has very high profit margin, since it is a cheaply-made potmetal gun that sells for a relatively high price (about same price as higher-quality rimfires like the Ruger Mark II or Browning Buck Mark). This sale success is due largely to the fact that folks like the looks of the gun and think they are getting a "real" Walther.

Sounds like its time to trade in for a ruger sr-22!!!

dubya450 said:

Sounds like its time to trade in for a ruger sr-22!!!

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Or not. The SR22 is still a problematic model at this point...I'd wait on them to iron out the self destructing bug first.

Fishbed77 said:

Nothing, when it comes to the quality of the guns made by Walther at the Walther factory in Ulm, Germany (P99, PPQ, PPS). Those pistols are some of the best money can buy, period.

A good comparison would be the period when Ford owned Jaguar. Did that make all Jaguars Fords? No. They were still made by Jaguar in the Jaguar factory, and during this time, quality and market sales increased substantually.

A notable exception was the Ford-built "Jaguar" X-type, which was a re-skinned clone of the Ford Mondeo (US market Contour), which was a lower-quality car that happened to tank commercially for Jaguar (largely because folks knew it wasn't a "real" Jaguar).

You can think of the P22 as the firearms equivalent of the X-Type, except it has been very successful commercialy, as it has very high profit margin, since it is a cheaply-made potmetal gun that sells for a relatively high price (about same price as higher-quality rimfires like the Ruger Mark II or Browning Buck Mark). This sale success is due largely to the fact that folks like the looks of the gun and think they are getting a "real" Walther.

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That was my point. Who owns them means little. I will say, you guys and your car metaphors are a little ridiculous. I wouldn't own a Ford OR a Jaguar.

Fishbed77 nailed it in post #7....nothing more to add, except S&W has OUTSTANDING customer service.

I got around 1000 through my P22 before the hammer spring snapped, while my sister was firing it, her first time ever behind a gun. Needless to say I was a little peeved.

I called S&W and told them exactly what I needed. Customer service took my address, and the part and said it'd be out in a few days. No order number, nothing. About a week and a half later I was fitting a virgin hammer spring into my little trainer.

bad gun + good service = okay this time, but never again

my daughter's pink and nickeled P22 has about 500 rounds through it. an even mix of yellow jackets and rem. 500 round bulk carton. it hasnt missed a beat though one of the bulk rounds failed to fire no matter where the primer was struck after rotating it in the chamber a few times.

Mine's been back to S+W twice too. Hammer spring snapped, then wasn't strong enough.
The slide stop notch is gone now too.


You know what Umarex made before P22's? Toys.
You know where P-22's are made? A toy factory.

wow6599 said:

Fishbed77 nailed it in post #7....nothing more to add, except S&W has OUTSTANDING customer service.

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Why not get stainless Ruger .22 revolver with high capacity cylinder. People claim they have excellent service and their guns do not seem to break. Gas prices will only go up ammo prices as well Ruger is quality arm that will hold value well. Tra, la, la, la, wee, wee.

desidog said:

You know what Umarex made before P22's? Toys.
You know where P-22's are made? A toy factory.

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You MUST be joking!

9mm PAK. Basically a blank firing pistol. I've never verified this, but I suspect the P22 is based on the 9mm PAK pistol. The fact that the P22 uses a rifling insert makes me suspect this even more so. It could be the other way around though.

You MUST be joking!

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They are an AirSoft manufacturer.