About private sell a gun in Virginia

No paperwork required in Virginia for a private sale.
God bless the Commonwealth.

Don't tell the Democrat's

And we have a far lower crime rate than Washingtoon and Maryland.

efeng9622 said:

I asked him to show me the drive license and put the number there. he hesitated a whole

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Personally, I would have called off the deal. If I walked up to you on the street and asked to copy information from your driver's license, would you let me? Just because I am buying a gun from you makes you no less of a stranger to me than the random guy walking up to me on the street. Want to SEE my driver's license to verify my state of residence and age? Sure, no problem. Copy it or the information on it? Nope.

In any sale of a major item, a bill of sale showing that the buyer received the item and showing that the seller received the purchase price is always a good idea. But all that is required for that bill of sale to hold up in court is name of the parties, date, description of item sold and compensation received with signatures of the parties.

No paperwork at all is required for private transfer of firearms in Virginia.

NavyLCDR is correct but I would want to see some ID from someone that I'm buying a gun from or selling a gun to. I might not write the person's name down in front of them but I'm definately putting it in my records. I might even write down their plates as they drive off.
A driver's license will either have a social security number or a driver's license number on it so I can understand someone not wanting you to write their info down. The same can be said for their address. If they wanted you to know where they live and where the rest of their guns are then they would have had you meet them at home.
I regret selling some guns in my younger days without getting any info from the buyer. Most of the buyers were people that I knew at the time but can barely remember today. Should the ATF knock at my door asking about the SKS that I sold 7 years ago or the shotgun I sold 10 years ago I would be hard pressed to provide any relevent info. I won't make that mistake again.

Should the ATF knock at my door asking about the SKS that I sold 7 years ago or the shotgun I sold 10 years ago I would be hard pressed to provide any relevent info. I won't make that mistake again.

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Of course, you don't have any requirement to provide them any such information. You do not have to know anything about them, nor provide the ATF or the FBI any information about them. So that's not a "mistake."

Patriotme said:

Should the ATF knock at my door asking about the SKS that I sold 7 years ago or the shotgun I sold 10 years ago I would be hard pressed to provide any relevent info. I won't make that mistake again.

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Why should you be obligated to provide any relevant information? "I sold it to a person whom I had no reason to believe was prohibited in any way from possessing it and whom I had no reason to believe was not a resident of the same state I was at the time." That's all that is required, by Federal law. A few states have more restrictive laws.

Even if I knew who I sold the gun to, I would not provide than information to the ATF or any LEO agency.

Well if it turns out that gun which you are on record as owning turned up at a murder scene it would surely make you a suspect. I sure hope you have a credible alibi for your whereabouts at the time of the murder.

Should the ATF knock at my door asking about the SKS that I sold 7 years ago or the shotgun I sold 10 years ago I would be hard pressed to provide any relevent info. I won't make that mistake again.

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So how many prison terms did those sales cost you? I'm thinking NONE - yet ANOTHER "OMG what IF the world is falling apart" statements with NO basis in reality

I sure don't get what is with the folks here today who think everyone is a terrorist buying their guns

oneounceload said:

So how many prison terms did those sales cost you? I'm thinking NONE - yet ANOTHER "OMG what IF the world is falling apart" statements with NO basis in reality

I sure don't get what is with the folks here today who think everyone is a terrorist buying their guns

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It's not an, "OMG moment" and I don't think that terrorists are buying my guns. The world isn't falling apart. Most of your statements make no sense but I understand that you're trying to be a (online) rebel that won't bow to either common sense or law enforcement.
If one of my former guns ends up at a crime scene then I'd kind of like that crime solved. I have this weird kind of morality that you might not understand.
If a firearm that once belonged to me is found at a rape, robbery, murder, etc then I have this really odd hope that the criminal is caught and I have no problem sending the police to the last known guy that had that gun.
I'm kind of funny like that.
I have a wife and daughter. I've got friends and family. I don't see any sense, any honor or any gain in trying to hinder an investigation into a gun crime. Do you feel that by stonewalling the ATF (as if you really would) you help make the world a safer place for your family? If one of your old guns is recovered at a murder are you going to brag about how you withheld info from law enforcement?
I hope not. I hope that you have more sense than that.
If the police want to know how one of my Rugers from 5 years ago ended up at a murder then I have no issues with helping them find the last person I know with that gun.
I don't feel the need to protect criminals. If you do then I pity you.

MAKster said:

Well if it turns out that gun which you are on record as owning turned up at a murder scene it would surely make you a suspect. I sure hope you have a credible alibi for your whereabouts at the time of the murder.

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I think that it would depend on how long the time period is between the purchase of the weapon and it's recovery at a crime scene. If it's a week you may find yourself pretty busy. It it's years then you're less likely to be a suspect.
Either way you are one more name for the police to cross off their list whether you cooperate or not so why mess around with stupid games?
Send the police to the last known guy that had that gun. Maybe he'll know where that gun went . Hope that they manage to take one more criminal off of the street.
You kind of made my point for me. If I am the last known owner of that recovered firearm the I really would like to have somewhere else to send the police.

Well if it turns out that gun which you are on record as owning turned up at a murder scene it would surely make you a suspect. I sure hope you have a credible alibi for your whereabouts at the time of the murder.

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Nope. Not even a little bit. To be a suspect of a murder you have to have some realistic, direct evidence that you were THERE and DID IT. A gun that was once owned by you is not any sort of evidence that you've committed murder. It is one spot investigators could possibly start looking -- IF they can even so far down the trail of ownership as you. IF you were the first owner and the FFL still has the 4473 and the investigators can locate you now, "Nope. Sold it to a resident of my state years back. Didn't catch his name." Period. End of story. (In other words, tell the truth!)

No prosecutor EVER has gotten an indictment of a person for whom the sum total of evidence was, "Well, gosh, his name is on the 4473."

MAKster Well if it turns out that gun which you are on record as owning turned up at a murder scene it would surely make you a suspect.

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Seriously?

NavyLCDR said:

Why should you be obligated to provide any relevant information? "I sold it to a person whom I had no reason to believe was prohibited in any way from possessing it and whom I had no reason to believe was not a resident of the same state I was at the time." That's all that is required, by Federal law. A few states have more restrictive laws.

Even if I knew who I sold the gun to, I would not provide than information to the ATF or any LEO agency.

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So if a gun that you sold to an aquaintance 10 years ago is recovered next to the body of a dead coed you would feel no obligation to give the police any information as to the last known owner of that gun?
I seriously hope that you are a better person than that.

Listen up guys.....I get the internet posturing but it's time for some common sense. If the ATF is snooping around and wanting to see the 2 AR's you bought last year then that's one thing. If they are trying to trace a weapon that was used in a killing then that's entirely different and I really hope that all of the tough talk is just that.

I don't feel the need to protect criminals. If you do then I pity you.

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I do not. I also don't care to promote the police state mentality that our guns need to be recorded and tracked.

Quite frankly, I WANT millions of "unregistered" "untraceable" "anonymous" guns out there in the world. I'd rather the string of custody be broken at every turn. If I can contibute to creating broken links in the record, I will.

It is a difficult path to walk, between the two evils of being 'soft on crime' and registration/tracking. We each have to decide how to balance those issues in whatever way helps us sleep at night.

Most of the guns I own have been private sale. I don't remember who the h..l I bought them from, and I doubt they remember who they sold them to. Only 1 of those I actually got a bill of sale for. I stashed it with my other receipts for valuable assets.

A bill of sale? Fine. Do your best to not sell to a criminal? Sure, to the best of your limited ability. Keep a transfer record? NO WAY!

I don't feel the need to protect criminals. If you do then I pity you.

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Seriously? Where did THAT come from?

I pity someone like you who obviously has no idea what your rights are, nor what the legal requirements are. Folks like you perhaps should pursue other hobbies where the paranoia level isn't as high - perhaps golf or fishing

Luckily very few Enfield or Mauser rifles are used in liquor/convenience store robberies, drive-by shootings, or crimes of passion.

The democratic politicians in CA, MA or wherever would be encouraged to know that none of my guns were or will be sold with bayonets, as we know that drive-by bayonetings are common.

On a serious note, one huge bureaucratic agency already has some control over the jobs of vast numbers of us, and I will do nothing regarding a hobby to help justify any other over-bloated bureaucracies, especially the ATF, which "allegedly" has conducted criminal operations, among other crooked activities.

oneounceload said:

Seriously? Where did THAT come from?

I pity someone like you who obviously has no idea what your rights are, nor what the legal requirements are. Folks like you perhaps should pursue other hobbies where the paranoia level isn't as high - perhaps golf or fishing

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I know exactly what my rights are but don't feel the need to possibly hinder an investigation for no real reason. In your earlier post you clearly stated that assisting an investigation was close to being hysterical about guns. Perhaps you should read it over again.
There's a saying that rings true. "Just because you can doesn't mean that you should."
Yes, you don't have to cooperate with LEO if they are trying to trace a gun or solve a crime. You can stall, stonewalling or obstruct an investigation if you believe that that is your, "Right." If you're innocent then you are totally correct in that regard. You may not be morally right but you're legally correct at least.

Some of you misunderstood my earlier comment about recording the name of a gun buyer.

I want that information. If you don't then so be it. Many of you will state over and over that gun owning is a responsibility yet from your statements in this thread don't support that. So be it. To each his own.

I support having unregistered guns but I want to know where MY guns go when they leave my possession. Once they find a new home it's up to that gun owner to keep up with them. My job is done. If some of you really don't care where your guns end up then that's your choice.

My wanting to know something as basic as the name of the man buying my firearms is not registration, government intrusion or a violation of rights.
Yes, I know my rights and I know the gun laws of my state. I also know what MY minimum requirement is when I sell a gun today and my personal standards are stricter today then they were at 25 years old. My original post was just that. My standards. If you have none then again.....so be it. Thump your chest proudly and tell the world that you are standing up for your "Rights" by taking absolutely no steps to keep your gun from being sold to a criminal.

Some of you seem to think that my earlier post dealt with cooperating with what is basically an AFT fishing expedition. It was pretty clear but let me try again for those that didn't get it.
No, I don't feel the need to cooperate if the ATF wants to see the 2 AR's I bought last year or the 2 handguns that I bought this year.
If however a gun that I sold several years ago is recoverd at a crime scene then it is ABSOLUTELY STUPID not to give LEO the name of the guy that bought the gun. If you feel comfortable hindering an investigation because it's, "Your right" to do so then something is wrong with you.
Yes, you're innocent and have no reason to get involved or provide the most basic help whatsoever. I wouldn't think that would be something to take pride in however.

Once again, I plan to record the name of the buyer in all of my future gun sales. If you don't care then that's your choice. My personal records are not registration or a gov database.

And yet another entry on the "People I will never buy a gun from" list.

I'm not concerned about some nefarious government list.

I just want YOU (the seller intent on recording my personal info) to have a comprehensive plan for maintaining that my information is not lost, misplaced, stolen, or misused. Say that piece of paper you wrote all my info on gets misplaced? Will you be liable for any possible damage to my financial well-being that may come of it? If, after giving you all of my info, I discover someone has opened a fraudulent credit card in my name...should I assume you have been careless with my data and take action accordingly?

When I buy or sell I ask to see your valid state ID. I'd expect to show my ID to the other party. But nobody copies my info down. Period. If that's a deal breaker, so be it.

Yes, you don't have to cooperate with LEO if they are trying to trace a gun or solve a crime. You can stall, stonewalling or obstruct an investigation if you believe that that is your, "Right." If you're innocent then you are totally correct in that regard. You may not be morally right but you're legally correct at least.

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Now, I would never condone active interference with an investigation or lying to the police who are trying to solve a crime. That's substantively different from saying that I do not keep records of transactions and willingly break the chain of custody where possible. As I said, "tell the truth." When I say "I don't know" that's precisely what I mean. I don't know. Not, "I know, but I'm not telling."

If nothing else, unpleasant things may happen to you if you obfuscate to the wrong people, under the wrong situations, at the wrong time.

As I said, everyone must walk a line between what they find unacceptable on one side and unacceptable on the other. We're all free to do business, or not, as we please.

Yes, you don't have to cooperate with LEO if they are trying to trace a gun or solve a crime. You can stall, stonewalling or obstruct an investigation if you believe that that is your, "Right." If you're innocent then you are totally correct in that regard

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NO one is saying to stall or hinder anything. How many of your ten year old gun sales have resulted in the cops coming to question you about their whereabouts? PLEASE gimme a break. I keep a record of when I sold the gun - but that is for MY homeowner's insurance.

And even IF, in the slightest, remotest chance one of your guns from 10 years ago was used in a crime and then in the slightest most remote possibility the cops could actually trace it back to you - THEN what? Most likely that gun has changed hands more than once or twice in that decade, so your info is moot

Folks who think that preparing for every remote possibility - whether it is selling or even possession, are really wasting a lot of time and effort that could be put to better use

Folks who think that preparing for every remote possibility - whether it is selling or even possession, are really wasting a lot of time and effort that could be put to better use

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Ok, but writing down the name the buyer gives you isn't really going to a lot of effort. So if that's where one chooses to draw his/her personal line, then I can't see faulting them for that.

Some folks want to go a lot further, demanding the opportunity to copy down and record lots of contact info, some want to see a CCW permit/license. Some want to do all transactions through an FFL because they think it makes them safer somehow. To me that's getting way off into crazy land () but writing down a name? Hey, if it makes you more comfortable? No harm done.