Marine Special Operation Command Order 4000 Colt Rail Guns

Remember that this is a small, non-standard unit, and that the 1911 carries a ton of nostalgia and a certain type of culture with it.

I wouldn't read anything at all into it besides that the Marines special operations group decided it would be really cool to have new 1911s instead of the pedestrian M9s everyone else has to carry.

Remember that this is a small, non-standard unit, and that the 1911 carries a ton of nostalgia and a certain type of culture with it.

I wouldn't read anything at all into it besides that the Marines special operations group decided it would be really cool to have new 1911s instead of the pedestrian M9s everyone else has to carry.

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This. I'd take one over a Beretta, too.

All those poly and aluminum pistols are just fine, but they lack the heft needed when it comes time to smack someone upside the head or across the bridge of the nose.

"Military Times" is one of the least reliable sources of information on the internet.

Remember that this is a small, non-standard unit, and that the 1911 carries a ton of

The U.S. Marine Corps doesn't do anything because it's "cool". You obviously no nothing about the Marine Corps.

I wouldn't read anything at all into it besides that the Marines special operations group decided it would be really cool to have new 1911s instead of the pedestrian M9s everyone else has to carry.

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Actually these new 1911s are to replace old 1911s the small special unit already used and not a "new" change to a 100 year old weapon. Marine special units have issued 1911s for a long time and will continue to do so.

The M9 is still the standard sidearm for all others.

The U.S. Marine Corps doesn't do anything because it's "cool". You obviously no nothing about the Marine Corps.

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There's a difference between pride and sensible argument. "Nowing" that line can be useful.

I have full faith that this is a decision based entirely on tradition and culture, seeing how often pistols are the determinant of a military gunfight.

The decision is based on end user experience and the history of the armorer’s to maintain the pistols.

The U.S. Marine Corps doesn't do anything because it's "cool". You obviously no nothing about the Marine Corps.

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You're forgetting their cool, flashy dress blues...

The U.S. Marine Corps doesn't do anything because it's "cool". You obviously no nothing about the Marine Corps.

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OK.

Then what led them to carry on with the 1911 platform instead of switching to the new standard pistol in the first place?

I'd rather have one of those than an M9, but I can think of about a half dozen pistols I'd rather have than either, especially during marches and any time working in extreme (ok even moderate heat, I'm a born and bred northerner and I start to go south above eighty degrees) heat.

Since pistols are largely as decisive in battle as a woobie, I'm not sure my hypothesis that they are using a 1911 in .45 because the leadership likes them and wants to carry on their separatist traditions is wrong.

Thanks for posting that, I was looking for confirmation of their contract.

My understanding is that MARSOC was specifically looking for a modern 1911 platform...

That was dumb.

Everyone knows the 1911 is an unreliable platform.




/sarcasm

\popcorn

The 1911 and the Ka-Bar. Both might not be the best in everyone's eye. But they have stood the test of time. Remember that both are for close range. I want the largest largest projectile that is practical. Also the metal platform is more versatile and rebuildable. Now if they would just re-issue the Thompson.

Aluminum is metal too.

The Thompson weighs (significantly) more than even an M16, let alone the M4 that actually makes the whole subgun class obsolete. Weighs more, about a fifth the usable range, significantly less terminal effectiveness, not a whole lot going to bat for the Thompson aside from nostalgia.

The 1911 is a great old platform, but let's be real, for people who are in fights determined often by who throws the most projectiles, grenades, bombs, mortar shells, rockets, and artillery, and who have to carry seventy to a hundred pounds of gear with them, going with the heaviest pistol ammunition around in maxed-out weight pistols is not a great idea. Especially since they give up a significant amount of capacity in the process.

The pistol doesn't matter much, but the math going into a troop's load doesn't say much in favor of an all-steel 1911, and honestly doesn't really give much of a reason to issue pistols at all.

Interesting discussion in this ARFcom thread seems to suggest that the Colt actually failed the testing: http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_5_49/127530_USMC_may_go__Colt.html

Fuel for the fire...

NG VI said:

OK.

Then what led them to carry on with the 1911 platform instead of switching to the new standard pistol in the first place?

I'd rather have one of those than an M9, but I can think of about a half dozen pistols I'd rather have than either, especially during marches and any time working in extreme (ok even moderate heat, I'm a born and bred northerner and I start to go south above eighty degrees) heat.

Since pistols are largely as decisive in battle as a woobie, I'm not sure my hypothesis that they are using a 1911 in .45 because the leadership likes them and wants to carry on their separatist traditions is wrong.

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MARSOC is hardly the only SF unit that has pistols other than the M9 in their armories.

There may be a bit of nostalgia involved in this purchase, but on the other hand they've been using 1911s in training and combat for a long time, they obviously know and trust the platform, so maybe their attitude is don't fix what ain't broke?

All they're really doing is replacing the worn out and mismatched 1911s they've been making do with for some time now anyways.

Fishbed77 said:

You're forgetting their cool, flashy dress blues...

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First one must understand the U.S. Marine Corps. We are talking an organization based on over 200 tears of tradition unhampered by progress. Actually as to the dress blue uniform it reflects the heritage of the corps from that high tight collar to the red piping and red stripes on NCO trousers. Everything about the uniform has meaning. Believe me I wouldn't kid you about that!

The Marines adopted the 1911 pistol in 1913 and this is a pretty good read on the pistol.

The Marines have had a love affair with the 1911 for close to a hundred years and for that hundred years the pistol has served them well. This is a 3/2010 thread on the same subject.

One of the Marine's stipulations for the new service pistol was it must use the standard 1911 magazines. I guess if you have a million lemons you make lemonade, and if you have several million 1911 magazines you buy 1911 style pistols to use what you have. Marines are also frugal by nature.

A Google will bring up a dozen hits and stories of what is going on with all of this. It has been in the works for years with them finally deciding on Colt.

Semper Fi
Ron

There's a difference between pride and sensible argument.

You also obviously know nothing about the Marine Corps.

You're forgetting their cool, flashy dress blues...

The Marine Corps is not about "flashy dress blue" it's about killing the enemy, and they do that well.

NG VI said:

Aluminum is metal too.
The pistol doesn't matter much, but the math going into a troop's load doesn't say much in favor of an all-steel 1911, and honestly doesn't really give much of a reason to issue pistols at all.

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If it runs out of bullets, maybe an all-steel 1911 will make a more serious dent in the other guy's skull??? Just saying.

All those mags are certainly a good point too; and yes, Marines are most certainly frugal... but also effective.

OK, I can't let my Brothers down. So, the Marine Corps went with the Colt Rail gun. It will replace some Kimbers and older, worn out Colts being used. The Marine Corps has the smallest budget and believe me, this country gets more bang for the buck from this great fraternity of warriors. So, MARSOC Marines will get a fine pistol to carry to the fray, outstanding. And if you compare the Marine Corps to ANY other branch...Hell, there is NO comparison..