Kahr cm9 or pm9?

That's about it. I think the PM slide is also 1/8" shorter.

If you can afford it, go for the PM. The night sights are kind of a big deal, and the extra magazine and polyganol rifling are always nice.

Trigger group, too

I was in my LGS last weekend and looked at those two models. The counterman told me that the PM also has a superior trigger group (though I could not tell the difference between the two individuals I handled).

If you shoot lead bullets, the polygonal rifled barrel NEEDS to be cleaned better, before shooting jacketed or plated bullets. I am told that a leaded polygonal barrel exerts more drag on copper-clad and can result in greatly increased pressures.

I went home with a Ruger SR1911, which is what I went there for. But gee whiz, those were two REALLY NICE small 45s.

Lost Sheep

I have a PM9, my wife a CM9.

I used to think that the CM9 was the better "value", but as time goes on - I think the PM9 is worth the extra money.

The CM9 has much sharper edges, one less magazine, MIM slide lock, plastic sights, ugly laser marks, etc.

YMMV

They are almost indentical and the PM isn't worth the high price. The best value is the CM.

wow6599 said:

I have a PM9, my wife a CM9.

I used to think that the CM9 was the better "value", but as time goes on - I think the PM9 is worth the extra money.

The CM9 has much sharper edges, one less magazine, MIM slide lock, plastic sights, ugly laser marks, etc.

YMMV

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Do you happen to shoot lead of of them? I am curious to know if anyone owns both and can compare the leading difference (if there is any)

Do you happen to shoot lead of of them?

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No, although I do roll my own. Lots of Berry's bullets to break them in.
I will say though, I still shock myself with my PM9.....I shoot that little thing better than most full size 9's - crazy accurate, and very light on felt recoil.

I bought my dad a CW9 and recently picked up a K9. Both are excellent, a C Series can be dehorned if need be (neither of us found it objectionable) and the front sight replacement is quite simple, actually easier than the P Series for an individual.

Don't let the slide stop material bother you, Kahr's implementation of MIM is excellent and as far as trigger mechanisms I don't believe there are significant differences between the two the OP is considering. The Elite Series is a whole nother level.

I honestly wouldn't recommend shooting lead through polygonal rifling ever, it isn't just lead build-up that increases pressure but the design of the rifling itself.

Best prices I've found on Kahr magazines: http://www.ivanhoeoutlet.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=43

Guns are the same except MIM slide stop/release, sights, standard barrel and less detailed slide on the CM9, for a small carry sidearm the CM9 is perfect, kinda like a S&W 642 semi.

I own a PM9, and have some experience with a CM9 (owned by a range buddy, have shot it, stripped it, cleaned it, etc.,).

The CM9 is a good value, no doubt, but the PM9 is worth the extra money. Getting to know the CM9 has not made me regret spending the extra for the PM9, and my buddy has expressed regrets that he didn't spend the extra.

Really, it just comes down to the PM9 being "nicer"- IMO, it is worth the extra <US$200.00 for something I carry on a semi-regular basis.

edited to add:

the slide stop is no biggy to me, and the CM9 shows every bit of the fit and finish of the PM9 (Kahr is excellent at this, IMX), just having less pretty added.

I went PM9 just because I could. Love that little sucker and I carry it pretty much daily. Night sights alone will add $100 plus to the CM9. You also get an extra mag with the PM9. Another $35-$40 bucks.

That's about it. I think the PM slide is also 1/8" shorter.

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Nope. The older PM9s have a 1/8" shorter slide, but it was changed a number of years ago.

I was in my LGS last weekend and looked at those two models. The counterman told me that the PM also has a superior trigger group (though I could not tell the difference between the two individuals I handled).

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Kahr has a new trigger on the PM9s, but only on models with an external safety. It's a slightly shorter pull. The standard PM9 uses the same trigger group as the CM9.

They dont have the same slide lock? What is MIM? Whats the difference?

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MIM is metal injection molding, a manufacturing process that's cheaper than machining. It's generally not as strong as a machined part, but breaking slide stops hasn't been a problem, so I see this an a non-issue.

The Elite Series is a whole nother level.

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Just about every model Kahr makes now comes with the "Elite" trigger. It's the standard trigger on the PM and CM series.

I realize this is off the mark - however... I had a PM9 for 2.5 years. I got a Shield about 2.5-3 months ago... I was in love. Sold the PM9 that first week - bought a 2nd shield since then too.

Less recoil than the PM9, and a better trigger IMHO... Worth a look if you can find one

I can pocket carry my PM9, which is a huge plus. I haven't held a S&W Shield yet......but I know it's a little bit bigger. Can the Shield be PC'd?

I have pocket carried my shield for 3 months now...

Here are some pis and comparison photos...







PM9 on top of a shield:

Actually $80.00 for Trijicon sights for the CW9 from Kahr, $27.50 for OEM magazines from my above link.

CW9 + night sights + second magazine = $506.50 (based on Bud's price for pistol)
PM9 with night sights (not standard) and second mag. = $682.00 (Bud's)
for a difference of $175.50

As far as the Elite trigger being standard on the PM Series with the external safety, Kahr's website lists the very same parts as a standard PM and without an E designation after part code #. Scimmia, could you provide more info for us? Would be great if it does include the upgrade as that is a rather spendy upgrade.

It's not a huge divide money wise but there is a price difference. I bought my K9 with night sights used for $351 after shipping just as I was gearing up to purchase a second CW9. That price for the steel frame made it even money and added night sights so I couldn't pass it up. Had I not caught that deal I would have happily lived with the CW. My other carries are an M&P 9c ($400 used) and a custom 1911 ($1,500 and counting) so money isn't my primary concern when choosing. I guess you can't go wrong either way...that Shipwreck has really got me wondering about the new Shield...

Enough rambling, lets have more pictures!

The Shield.....maybe. It looks a little bigger, and IIRC, it's about 4-5 ounces heavier.

There is a lot of BS floating about at the local guns stores.

Also it is much easier to put night sights on the pm, according to my lgs.

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Nope - Kahr offers a set of Trijicon night sights for the CM9 that are no more difficult to install than the PM9 sights.

The counterman told me that the PM also has a superior trigger group (though I could not tell the difference between the two individuals I handled).

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Again - total BS. The PM9 and the CM9 use the exact same trigger group.

As far as I'm concerned, the only real benefit the PM9 offers over the the CM9 is the extra magazine. And that is most definitely NOT worth the $200 premium.

Skylerbone said:

As far as the Elite trigger being standard on the PM Series with the external safety, Kahr's website lists the very same parts as a standard PM and without an E designation after part code #. Scimmia, could you provide more info for us? Would be great if it does include the upgrade as that is a rather spendy upgrade.

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I'm sorry I wasn't more clear earlier, was trying to get the info up before having to leave.

The "Elite" trigger was first used on the K series pistols as an optional upgrade. It's smoother with less travel than the previous trigger and became standard on virtually all Kahr models about 10 years ago. The exception is the standard K series pistols which still use the old trigger, sometimes called the New York trigger as Kahr reported kept it around because that's what the New York Police wanted.

The new trigger they're putting on the PM9 with an external safety is known as the "Enhanced" trigger. It's brand new, literally coming out within the last month or two. You're seeing the same part number because they're still selling the older trigger group, as it's not a drop in upgrade on the older pistols.

As far as I'm concerned, the only real benefit the PM9 offers over the the CM9 is the extra magazine. And that is most definitely NOT worth the $200 premium.

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Do you own both? I do. I guess if you like your CCW to double as a shaving razor, then you might be right.

Here's a video showing the newest PM9 from Shot Show 2012. It has the "enhanced trigger" but the video only mentions it, doesn't explain it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_yw1-F0ZX0

Note the shooter sling-shot the slide to load. Yes, it does work if you don't ride the slide. I'm not sure the enhanced trigger guns have actually hit the gun shops yet. The safety has been out for a while and the two features are unrelated.

* The front sight difference on the PM vs. the CM is the dovetail cut that allows any sight to be fitted. The CM is limited to those couple of sights available.

* The PM can come all black. The CM is not available in black.

* The barrels are different.

IMHO, these three items, and the cost of the second mag, are the features that differentiate the two models. If the color and prefered sights are important then the PM is your gun. Personally I prefer polygonal barrels because they are easier to clean and last longer. If these features don't matter and you're happy with the CM feastures, then there's no reason to spend the money. On the other hand, if you want your carry gun a certain way, then the PM is the gun for you.

For a good deal look to this PM at BUD'S , a blemished model. I have a blemished K9 that is a joy, and I still haven't found the reason it was so marked. These guns are marked with a "B" on the trigger guard. In my case I bought a K9 with CT grips, Mepreo night sights and the elite trigger for less than $600. Deals can be had if you're willing to overlook a small flaw.
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_51/products_id/411550391