joerowlands
Member
Does anyone know if my m1 carbine that was made by inland with a serial #6190202 was everissued to troops
M1 carbine
- Thread starter joerowlands
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medalguy
Member
If it's an Inland, it was almost certainly issued at some point. No way to tell who/when it was carried.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
You are sure it is an Inland?
It would really be hard to say. Somewhere around here I think I have books by Bruce Canfield that really break down the war baby (M1 Carbine) but am unsure where they are. The problem with researching the M1 Carbine is the rifles as well as parts were made by so many contractors. Your serial number range looks to be Underwood. Then to further complicate things a rifle manufactured by one contractor may have a barrel (or other parts) made by another manufacturer and yet be original. Been years since I was overly interested in them.
Additionally millions of the little rifles were sent to other countries around the globe under a "lend / lease" agreement and later imported back into the US and many more were made available to the US public from US arsenals through the old DCM (Director of Civilian Marksmanship) program now called the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program). Does your rifle have any markings or stampings around the end of the barrel that may be an import stamp?
All in all it is difficult to say if the rifle was issued to troops, let alone US troops. Hopefully another forum member more familiar with and more current on the M1 Carbine will come along with more information than I have to offer up.
Ron
It would really be hard to say. Somewhere around here I think I have books by Bruce Canfield that really break down the war baby (M1 Carbine) but am unsure where they are. The problem with researching the M1 Carbine is the rifles as well as parts were made by so many contractors. Your serial number range looks to be Underwood. Then to further complicate things a rifle manufactured by one contractor may have a barrel (or other parts) made by another manufacturer and yet be original. Been years since I was overly interested in them.
Additionally millions of the little rifles were sent to other countries around the globe under a "lend / lease" agreement and later imported back into the US and many more were made available to the US public from US arsenals through the old DCM (Director of Civilian Marksmanship) program now called the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program). Does your rifle have any markings or stampings around the end of the barrel that may be an import stamp?
All in all it is difficult to say if the rifle was issued to troops, let alone US troops. Hopefully another forum member more familiar with and more current on the M1 Carbine will come along with more information than I have to offer up.
Ron
joerowlands
Member
R on it is an inland and in ideal shape, looks like it was never shot let alone issued out. I'm just curious, it's driving me nuts. Thank you, if you hear of anything please keep me in mind. Thank you.
joerowlands
Member
Thank you, but some one has to know.
joerowlands
Member
It was made in Feb of 45. maybe it wasn,t issued out.
scaatylobo
Member
@ joerowlands
R on it is an inland and in ideal shape, looks like it was never shot let alone issued out. I'm just curious, it's driving me nuts. Thank you, if you hear of anything please keep me in mind. Thank you."
I have seen arsenal do overs [ very recently ] that looked brand new and unfired [ in fact it was not fired after redo].
I regret not buying it for a shooter,have one already and enjoy shooting them.
I would find it hard to believe it never saw action in Korea or Nam.
R on it is an inland and in ideal shape, looks like it was never shot let alone issued out. I'm just curious, it's driving me nuts. Thank you, if you hear of anything please keep me in mind. Thank you."
I have seen arsenal do overs [ very recently ] that looked brand new and unfired [ in fact it was not fired after redo].
I regret not buying it for a shooter,have one already and enjoy shooting them.
I would find it hard to believe it never saw action in Korea or Nam.
Jim Watson
Member
There was a little thing known as the Korean War a few years after that. It probably got used.
The US Army did not then keep individual records of the issue of smallarms.
You could show pictures and we could discuss its history based on its configuration.
The US Army did not then keep individual records of the issue of smallarms.
You could show pictures and we could discuss its history based on its configuration.
content
Member
Hello friends and neighbors// Does it have an O.G. stamped on the stock?
Or any other "cartouche" stampings on the stock?
Or any other "cartouche" stampings on the stock?
joerowlands
Member
There is the letter P stamped in the space where the sling is, that's all I can see.
"Someone has to know."
Well, no. Weapons issue cards and unit inventory documents were "ephemera" which is a fancy way of saying they were tossed out when they were obsolete, when the soldier transferred or the unit disbanded. Weapons (with the exception of General Officers' pistols) were not the property of the soldier, they were the property of the unit, usually the company. Even records of which unit a weapon was issued to weren't kept; each unit was responsible for keeping track of its weapons. All higher headquarters would know was that a unit had x number of carbines, not what numbers they were or to whom they were issued.
Jim
Well, no. Weapons issue cards and unit inventory documents were "ephemera" which is a fancy way of saying they were tossed out when they were obsolete, when the soldier transferred or the unit disbanded. Weapons (with the exception of General Officers' pistols) were not the property of the soldier, they were the property of the unit, usually the company. Even records of which unit a weapon was issued to weren't kept; each unit was responsible for keeping track of its weapons. All higher headquarters would know was that a unit had x number of carbines, not what numbers they were or to whom they were issued.
Jim
If the only marking on your stock is a P in the sling well, the stock has been refinished, the crossed cannons, on the butt's right side, and the P proof mark, on the bottom of the pistol grip, having been sanded away. The marking in the sling well indicates the stock's manufacturer and, I believe, there should be a second letter with the P. Most likely, your entire M1 carbine has been refinished.
joerowlands
Member
Thank you.does that take away from the value? It has RIA behind the receiver!
RIA, Rock Island Arsenal, most likely is the facility where your M1 carbine was overhauled. Any military firearm that's been refinished, at one of the military arsenals, is worth less than a military firearm that has all it's original, correct, parts and markings. A used, original, military firearm is worth considerably more than a new looking, overhauled, one.
I doubt, according to the serial number you posted, your M1 carbine was manufactured by Inland. The serial number indicates Underwood manufacture. Re-check the serial number and the manufacturer which will be seen on the heel of the receiver, above the serial number which may be obscured by the adjustable rear sight. Something isn't correct, either the serial number or the manufacturer.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
I agree as I posted the Underwood serial number blocks in post #3. I don't get it. The serial number runs with a block assigned to Underwood and not Inland. The serial number and manufacturer should match up. Also, based on the serial number your rifle likely has the stamped adjustable sight. This sight base will cover and obscure the manufacturer in most cases. Possibly could the U in Underwood maybe look like an I for Inland idf you only see the first part of the letter U? They can be very difficult to read.
Ron
content
Member
^^^My serial #info concurs with the above two posts ,something is not right.
joerowlands
Member
Ron, it is an inland div made m1, stamped behind the sights.
Is the serial number on your M1 carbine the same as in your original post?
Reloadron
Contributing Member
The problem is when the M1 Carbines were manufactured they were built by several companies. Manufacturers were assigned serial number "blocks".
The serial number you posted, serial #6190202 was not an Inland assigned serial number but was assigned to Underwood as mentioned. I covered the Underwood serial number blocks in post #3. Here is an example of the Inland and Underwood assigned numbers:
Your serial #6190202 reflects being manufactured by Underwood. Beyond that I really do not know what to say.
Ron
powell&hyde
Member
joerowlands
Member
I believe it is, here it is again 6910202. Maybe I made a mistake. It looks like the one labeled War Baby, just like it.
joerowlands
Member
Sorry looking back, I think I put the wrong #'s in. I'm a dummy sometimes.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Now it makes sense. If you look back at my post #20 you will see where it fits into the scheme of serial numbers. Amazing what transposing a few digits can do huh?
All of the data in the rest of the thread holds true as to issued and where the rifle may have been. They are great little rifles so just enjoy it.
Ron
Your carbine probably has adjustable sights on it. The sight base hides the manufacturer's name, which should be above the serial number. You can peer around the sight base and see enough of the beginning and ending letters of the manufacturer to be able to know exactly who made the carbine. Except for the two saginaw divisions that made carbines, the names of the other eight contractors are not similar at all.
With the original flip sights, none of the markings were covered by the sight base.
I forget, off hand, when the shift was made to the adjustable sights, but after WWII, most, if not all rebuilt carbines got adjustable sights. Some carbines survived with their original flip sights, but it is many fewer than those with adjustable sights.
An arsenal rebuild is probably not as valuable as an original, but there are precisous few carbines that survived without being rebuilt at least once.
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