7.62x39 vs .357 Magnum

Both, I'm sure, will go clean through a person. Maybe two.

The deciding factor is going to be shot PLACEMENT, both would perform about the same.

On the 357 you have the option of shooting a wide variety of JHP defense loads which will expand good. On the 7.62x39 you have the option of SP hunting bullets, which I'm sure would work good, or JHP (which may or may not expand reliably), or any number of 308/311 diameter projectiles if you roll your own.

So, depends on the ammo, and shot placement.

But I'd put them pretty damn equal to each other on terminal effects.

I think you have a velocity number for the .357 that is too high.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

If we just look at the numbers alone:

Black Hills 125 grain Jacketed Hollow Point (Gold Dot) (357 Mag)
FPS = 1,500 (125x1500=187,500)

Cor Bond 125 grain Jacketed Hollow Point (7.62x39 Russian)
FPS = 2,400 (125x2400=300,000)

Based on numbers alone the 7.62x39 has the greater potential of imparting more energy on target.

Depending on the material of the target and the bullet, it would appear that the 7.62x39 Russian would be the choice. BUT, depending on distance it could go through the target completely and would impart less energy where it is most needed.

If both expand within the first 5 to 6 inches then it would be the 7.62x39 if it is close-in the 7.62 will just go through the target and the 357 Mag would be the better choice.

So what is your range (distance)????

Jim

I think you have a velocity number for the .357 that is too high.

Click to expand...

Buffalo Bore does show 2,298 FPS for their 125 gr. load from an 18" Marlin.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=103

Personally, I'd opt for the 158 or 180 gr. loads in a rifle. I don't expect the 125 grain bullets will perform as intended when driven that fast.

Between the 7.62x39 and the heavy .357 loads for defense? I'd lean toward the .357 for terminal performance, but the 7.62x39 for platform. I've never seen a semi-auto .357 carbine.

All that said, if I have to grab a rifle for HD, it'll be my AR with 50 gr. V-max loads.

Out of a 20" or 24" barrel, I believe the quoted velocity would be about right. The graph only goes up to an 18" barrel.

Woody

Another factor to concider is bullet shape and construction. The .357 is likely a jacked hollow point designed to expand at handgun velocities. At 125 grains it may totaly fragment at rifle velocities and not exit the man or animal it hits. The 7.62X39 is typically a pointed full metal jacket military bullet that can sometimes zip through soft tissue causing little damage.

Personally either one with good shot placement is going to do very serious damage to a person. I don't think anyone in any right frame of mind would say that a 7.62X39mm or .357 Mag. is not a sufficient round at close range to take down an individual. It's not like you hear every day that AK-47's are not killing or seriously wounding other soldiers around the world.

Owen, good point on the fragmenting of the 357. I didn't think about that.

I think the argument is too "hair splitting"; either one will do the job with fantastic (and intended) effect.

So it would come down to the action and firearm choice. (Which is the way it should be; cartridges above a certain threshhold are just preference; getting a firearm that fits what you want the best should be the priority; cartridges aside.)

Another thing to think about is that the stubby blunt pistol bullet of the .357 has a very poor ballistic coefficent and drops like a rock past 100 yards while the sleek pointy bullet of the 7.62X39 pierces the air with much less wind resistance and is practical out to around 300 yards.

Inside your house bullet drop would make no difference but if you ever went to court it might look better to uninformed jurors if you shot the intruder with a lever action 'cowboy gun' rather than some sort of 'commie assault weapon'.

Personally for home defense the better choice between the two IMO would be the .357 Mag. but not typically in a rifle setup (Pistol only). Most .357 Mag. rifles are of an older design lever action that are est. 37" in length on avg. An Ak-47 with a fixed stock can be 34" and a folded stock sits around est. 25" in length. So from a tactical standpoint an AK with a folding stock would be the best choice over a lever .357 Mag. So if it has to be a home defense rifle setup and I had to only choose between the two, than yes I would go with the AK-47. (If I really had to pick, I would go with 5.45X39mm AK-74 or AR in .223 Rem.)IMO

I don't think a few inches of length will make much difference in your house, especially if you know to take cover and wait for the bad guy to come to you.

if 30-30 is equal to 7.62x39, how can .357 be better?

(yes im chumming the waters)

The 7.62x39 wins in every way shape and form with a higher pressure rating, more case capacity, higher BC bullets and platform. Assuming careful selected projectiles are used suited to the task

I have owned both in rifles and explored their capabilities extensively I have killed deer and coyotes with the x39 out to and beyond 300yds. Yet everyone here will tell you a 357 carbine is a 100yds Max gun.

IMO anyone claiming otherwise is merely touting their favorites.

NOW having said this I seriously doubt anything living shot with either within 50yds will be able to tell or would be concerned by the difference. Then again the same could be said for 30_06 v 357


And another thing, is anyone else getting sick and tired of seeing folks substituting BUFFALO BORES advertising for their overloaded ammunition for actual experience with whatever cartridges are being discussed?

Close range? So like HD? I really doubt it will matter. Both are going to make some real nasty wounds in someone with ill intentions in your house. Shoot for COM and you will do fine.

Even the Corbon 125 gr. I wouldn't think would go more than 2200 out of a 20" barrel. I'm not well versed on rifles (especially Russian rifles), is that AK load a mid-range or a low-range?

One thing I've seen in ballistics gel is that most pistol rounds tend to have the majority of their TWC at the begining of the wound tract, when the round expands. There's still some past that, but you get that sort of leaf-shape. With the AK rounds, that tumble as they go through the target, you get at least two balloons in the TWC, making it more likely to have the wide channel deeper if needed.

Here's the other thing I'm going to look at: what platform are these in? Typically, your "self defense" .357 magnum rifle is a lever action, and your "self defense" AK is going to be a semi-automatic. 8 or 10 rounds in the lever (if I'm not mistaken, haven't looked at it too much), 30 in the AK with faster reloads.

Rifle round vs. handgun round, rifle wins everytime

With an expanding bullet (hollow or soft point), I would give the edge to the 7.62. It will be going a lot faster when it hits than any .357 Mag.

if 30-30 is equal to 7.62x39, how can .357 be better?

Click to expand...

The .30-30 outclasses the 7.62x39 by a decent margin.

MachIVshooter said:

The .30-30 outclasses the 7.62x39 by a decent margin.

Click to expand...

By less than the difference of 308 v 30-06

Why are people whinning over 100fps wth the 357. The rifle thats going to work the best is the one you can shoot the best or get to the quickest. For that russian use the hornady 123gr SST ammo. For that 357mag , these.- https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=277

The .357 is going to be at its max in the 18 inch barrel unless it has been loaded for the longer barrel. The typical .357 magnum load that I have seen gets its max burn between 8 to 12 inches of barrel. The longer barrel will only add more friction to the projectile and limit its velocity. The projectile will also stand a higher chance of fragmentation at higher velocities. This is not what we need or want.

The 7.62x39 soft point round is loaded for a longer barrel, and does not give up much in the mass factoring, and will hold up at those higher velocities. The rifles that are chambered for the 7.62x39 tend to hold 10 or more shots per magazine, and don't recoil that much. My choice for home defense would be the 7.62x39 with the right ammo.

The 7.62x39 is far more powerful.

Either will stop a man cold.

Seems obvious and I wouldn't think this would even require discussion.

The 7.62X39 is a better rifle round for use at rifle distances. For HD the .357 will do fine though I would much rather have a shotgun if I were laying in wait for a home invader.