All-around cartridge for North American game?

I kind of feel like CraigC in the sense that if you may hunt whitetailed deer and perhaps black bear, any of the 270 > 30-06 calibers are fine, back it up a little in power or move up a little in power to the 7mm or 300 win mag; just fine. I do think the '06 is the do it all caliber if you just have to choose one contrary to Craig. The caliber range stated is plenty of viable choices until you start hunting dangerous game. As was mentioned the 30-06 is rated the #3 caliber in Alaska for dangerous game. I don't really want to be shooting 338's or 375's just because I might some day hunt Alaska. I'll buy it for the the trip. Unless you live there, if you can afford the Alaska hunt, you can afford the new rifle.

this thred has got me thinking , why would anyone only get one cal.? never mind the 30-06 thing , or the better ones or even one action , I have bolt gun's, pump guns, autoload guns, brake action guns, a lever gun and a few combo guns and a pile of hand guns,

I would think haveing a short range gun, a mid range gun, a long range gun ,would make more sence, field hunting ,woods hunting , brush hunting, and for a first gun i'd say start with a mid range woods gun , Pick a cal , then move to your next gun

Pretty novel idea

About 30 post ago:banghead:

You can get from 204-338 50 fps and 10 grs at a time with the same academic reasoning and each step will be spliting hairs.
I do not and will never subscribe to any notion of an all around cartridge for North America or any other place.
Anybody who has tried to download/upload for a single rifle probably has not been met with near the success that one would have with three seperate (min) cartridge rifle combinations like a 22, 6mm-25, 7mm-338. Having some quick change barrel is an option but IMO not a good one since buying barrel/scope ends up costing near what 3 good used guns would cost if not more.
119 posts and what? Anybody convinced of the perfect one yet?

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Let's play this game.....the absolute minimum and most ideal "all around the world" hunting rifle battery....


In my opinion you can do it, at most, with only 3 rifles/calibers.


1) A high velocity small caliber like a 223 or a 243, for the small stuff/varmint

2) A 30-06 (a must!!! )

3) One of the over 400 magnums (458 Lott, 416, etc...) for the big, thick skinned dangerous stuff in Africa


What do you think??


P.S.

Yes yes a pump 12 ga. shotgun and a .22 would be useful too in addition to these above....they are cheap enough....

X-Rap said:

Pretty novel idea

About 30 post ago:banghead:

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yep, I saw that I thought you were jokeing, never heard of a 204-338 50fps ? or that wild cat, 6mm-25 or the 7mm-338 , I thought you were just some smart ace, now I see you uesd a (-) where I would have the word (too) like 6mm too .25 or 7mm too 338, so I just skimed over it and went to the next post I was waiting for someone to list the 8mm neck to 30cal (30/8mm) anyway headbang lol,,,,,,,,

I was also pointing out actions as the OP is looking at a single shot, great mid range woods gun

saturno_v said:

Let's play this game.....the absolute minimum and most ideal "all around the world" hunting rifle battery....


In my opinion you can do it, at most, wi only 3 rifles/calibers.


1) A high velocity small caliber like a 223 or a 243, for the small stuff/varmint

2) A 30-06 (a must!!! )

3) One of the over 400 magnums (458 Lott, 416, etc...) for the big, thick skinned dangerous stuff in Africa


What do you think??


P.S.

Yes yes a pump 12 ga. shotgun and a .22 would be useful too in addition to these above....they are cheap enough....

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where is your short range brush gun ?? high power short barrel ? ,30/30 32win spl, 44mag auto or lever , 41mag lever , 35rem pump or lever ,

where is your short range brush gun ?? high power short barrel ? ,30/30 32win spl, 44mag auto or lever , 41mag lever , 35rem pump or lever ,

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I do not see them as an absolute requirement trying to get the smallest possible "around the world" rifle battery...you can hunt reasonably well in thick woods even with a 22" barrel 30-06....

saturno_v said:

I do not see them as an absolute requirement trying to get the smallest possible "around the world" rifle battery...you can hunt reasonably well in thick woods even with a 22" barrel 30-06....

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thats no fun , ya need more guns guns guns ,,,,!!! and a brush gun is a must , I guess you could just use your 12ga and use slugs , I'll let your wife know you only need 5 guns ,, but don't tell mine lol ,,,,

My best "short range brush gun" is a Remington M7 in .308, light, short, handy as heck, fast to the shoulder and eye, 2x10x40 set on 2x. My mountain gun is a Remington M7 in .308. 400 yards capable, 3/4 MOA accurate, powerful enough to take down a deer cleanly at 400 yards, elk to 300 yards and I'd load with a Barnes bullet (equally accurate to the Nosler BT I normally use) for that, but I'll probably never hunt elk, so superfluous. Just zoom that 2x10 up a bit for longer shots.

Anyway, part of being versatile is in the RIFLE, not necessarily the caliber, IMHO.

MCgunner said:

My best "short range brush gun" is a Remington M7 in .308, light, short, handy as heck, fast to the shoulder and eye, 2x10x40 set on 2x. My mountain gun is a Remington M7 in .308. 400 yards capable, 3/4 MOA accurate, powerful enough to take down a deer cleanly at 400 yards, elk to 300 yards and I'd load with a Barnes bullet (equally accurate to the Nosler BT I normally use) for that, but I'll probably never hunt elk, so superfluous. Just zoom that 2x10 up a bit for longer shots.

Anyway, part of being versatile is in the RIFLE, not necessarily the caliber, IMHO.

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yep 308 makes a good short, mid, and long range ,I'd take a Savege 99 with iron sights in 308win , been looking for one in 300sav, I don't like scopes for brush hunting , not even a 0X red dot , it the thick stuff I don't want anything on top of my gun

Well, people real life experiences say otherwise.....read this review for the 220 gr. Nosler partition bullet out of a 30-06

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NO! You didn't say anything about Partitions. You referenced generic "Remchesteral". The 220gr CorLokt, as I said, is not the Hammer of Thor it is touted to be. A good controlled expansion 180gr will usually do better. In actual penetration testing, it doesn't fare very well and that 1983 USFS testing is the biggest joke ever. However, the OP said "...excluding bear, moose, and similar large/dangerous animals" so this is entirely irrelevant.

.....If up to well over 150 fps of difference for you is zero that means that the 300 Win Mag has zero advantage over the 30-06 as well......

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According to what data with what barrel lengths??? Regardless, 150fps is COMPLETELY meaningless.

Sorry, but my dad hunted almost exclusively in Alaska with his 30-06....

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The fact that people use it is evidence that proves what, exactly? That it's better than any other cartridge??? Uh, no.

.308 in Alaska, no thanks.

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You really believe the .308 would not have killed those critters just as dead? Or any of several dozen others???


You guys are not listening to what I'm saying. You're just getting offended because I don't worship your favorite cartridge. I'm not saying the `06 is worthless and that it doesn't do everything you say it will. Quite the contrary. I'm saying that it is a jack of all trades and master of none. It's too in-between. There are better deer/antelope cartridges that are smaller, shoot flatter and fit into smaller/lighter rifles. That there are better cartridges for larger game that hit with more authority.

WHICH IS PROBABLY WHY THE OP HAS ALREADY ELIMINATED THE `06 FROM CONSIDERATION ALL THE WAY BACK ON PAGE ONE!!!!!!!

You still arguing?

You still drinking the Kool Aid?

People decide what they like and then gather up a bunch of mostly trivial differences to support what they like.

It's good for magazine articles and forum discussions but doesn't amount to anything for the vast, vast majority of opportunities in the field.

If nothing had ever been invented except the 30-06 the difference in number of big game animals killed would be insignificant.

CraigC said:

All I'm saying is that he shouldn't be afraid to use something not suggested in one of the canned "buy a .30-06" responses. Good Lord man, you hunt with a .460, you know all about trying something different.

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Yes, but I don't hunt with it just because it is different, I hunt with it because it is very good at what it was designed for. Killing deer effectively beyond the range of other popular straight walled handgun ammo. I also love shooting it. But never will you hear me say it's more versatile than my .44s or .357s. I knew from day one that ammo would be expensive and hard to find if I had to depend on factory ammo, and if I had to rely solely on factory ammo, odds are I would not have it. When threads come up about folks interested in buying one, it is one of the first things I make sure they know. Why? Because it's important.

BTW, the deer I took last year was with the highly versatile, easy to find ammo for, .44 magnum.

CraigC said:

The point is that there are a HELL of a lot of cartridges to choose from and you don't buy to "buy a .30-06" because everybody else has one.

Same with 12ga shotguns, .50cal muzzleloaders, .357Mag revolvers, etc., etc., ad nauseum. Live a little, don't make the easy choice.

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So now, by your own words the 30-06 is "the easy choice''? Kinda the point many of us were tryin' to make all along. If one is to own only one big game firearm to hunt the species of deer found in the lower 48, and for protection from predators while hunting those deer, an easy choice is a 30-06. Boring as to the point of making one sick depends on whats layin' on the ground when you get done with it. IMHO, just because the OP made a different choice does not mean others who chose the '06 made a wrong choice, it just means he made a choice using his own criteria. Just as those that picked the '06 used their own. What criteria they used is not important. What's important is that they chose the gun that was right for them.


These gun/caliber/bullet threads always end up similarly. Many of us make our choices on these things because of personal preferences and emotions and thus feel insulted when others don't agree. Fact is, very seldom are any of us really wrong. We're just all different. That's what makes this world and these forums interesting. It's also what keeps gun and ammo makers in business.

270 Winchester

NO! You didn't say anything about Partitions. You referenced generic "Remchesteral". The 220gr CorLokt, as I said, is not the Hammer of Thor it is touted to be. A good controlled expansion 180gr will usually do better. In actual penetration testing, it doesn't fare very well and that 1983 USFS testing is the biggest joke ever. However, the OP said "...excluding bear, moose, and similar large/dangerous animals" so this is entirely irrelevant.

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My reference to the Remchesteral was in response to your statement that if you need a 220 gr. you did need a bigger caliber.....I responded that the 220 gr. are very common and EVEN Remchesteral make them....it was meant to say that they are not rare of fringe loads....

In addition to that, again my hunter friends at the range would like to say something about the effectiveness of the 220 gr. Core-Lokt...

You can also read some reviews (all of them 5 stars) of the 220 gr. Remington here from people using them from Africa to Alaska......they definitely disagree with your assesment about the effectiveness of that load...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/54...ield-220-grain-core-lokt-soft-point-box-of-20

According to what data with what barrel lengths??? Regardless, 150fps is COMPLETELY meaningless.

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24" Length, according to the Hodgdon reload data center

http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

150 fps may be meaningless and if it is so, then the difference between a 30-06 and a 300 Win Mag is meaningless using the same logic.....

yep 308 makes a good short, mid, and long range ,I'd take a Savege 99 with iron sights in 308win , been looking for one in 300sav, I don't like scopes for brush hunting , not even a 0X red dot , it the thick stuff I don't want anything on top of my gun

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I do prefer low power scopes even in brush at close range, much faster on target and my eyes ain't what they used to be and were NEVER that great. I've taken deer close on the run out to 50 yards with scope. I get on target quicker. 1.5 to 2X for such use seems perfect to me.

Buddy of mine prefers irons and has the goofiest set up IMHO, but he likes it. He's got a Browning BLR in .308 (an EXCELLENT and accurate lever gun I personally prefer to the Savage 99) topped by a 4x12 in see through mounts, about the worst of ALL worlds IMHO, LOL, but he seems to like it. Whatever floats his boat, right? I'd put a 2x10 on it set low or just run the irons. I HATE SEE THROUGH MOUNTS. LOL

I think what he likes about it, though, is that if he jumps something in the brush, he's going to want his irons. Again, I prefer an optic, but he, like you, prefers the irons. Now, if he has to shoot at something farther out, he doesn't need the stock weld for the scope. What I really don't like about see throughs, though, beyond I just prefer a low mounted scope, is there is excessive scope height above bore, screws up the ballistics chart. His scope has GOT to be 3" above the bore.

Oh, well, he takes deer with it, so it works for him. Who am I to complain?

Now, I'm fine with my little M7. I love the thing, so light and fast to the shoulder, yet sub MOA accurate. I have never had the chance to fire a second shot on a deer jumped while still hunting in heavy woods and I've done this with a semi-auto before. If you miss, he's gone. No follow up is likely. So, I just concentrate on NOT missing.

^^ when I was a hunter safty teacher , we would alway try to talk parents out of those over under mounts , because kids tend to lift there head off the stock going from iron too scope and get "scope-eye" no fun!
but with the handi-rifle the OP is looking at there is no iron sights , but it would still make a good brush gun with a large (44mm) 2x red-dot , however he said he was looking for a all-around cartridge + gun , he may want to go with any of the good 3-9's or do what I did and slap on a big old 4-16x44

I put this set of "scope toppers" from Millett on my .308 M7 just because I had 'em laying around. I'd bought 'em for my contender pistol, but didn't use 'em as I put a 30mm scope on that gun and these "scope toppers" are for 1" rings. Now, I don't really intend to use 'em, but they're pretty accurate out at 50-75 yards if I drop the gun and worry about the scope being off. You look OVER the scope for 'em and, for me, they're just back ups. With a sight radius of about 4-5", it's like shooting a handgun, though.

If I ever put a 1" scope on a contender barrel, I'll probably put those scope toppers on THAT barrel. Be great on a handgun. Actually, I have a 1" scope on my .22 barrel, but I don't see the need in ever using iron sights on a .22 barrel. I have iron sighted .22s to plink with. I don't even think Millett makes those things anymore. They're better than see through mounts if you need back up iron sights IMHO, but I wouldn't use 'em unless I feared my scope got knocked off. Not an option I'd recommend to the OP.

I do have a 1.5x4.5 Bushnell that's a great little optic. The thing I don't like about it is it's a 22mm scope and doesn't gather light worth a toot. I had it on a .22, sold the .22 and kept the scope, so it really doesn't have a use at the moment. I'm thinkin' I might put it on my inline .50 caliber CVA and swap that scope to another gun as it's a better/brighter scope. It's a 3x9x40. No real reason to have a 3x9 on a muzzle loader.

I'd advise to the OP that the 2x10x40 Weaver I have on my .308 is about the most versatile optic I own and very good quality. It was only about 200 bucks, too, which might sound excessive if you've been looking at Tascos, but I don't think you can find a QUALITY scope for much less.

</ramble>

50 bmg.

josiewales said:

50 bmg.

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50bmg , in a handi gun ?? ok , but you go first , I'll go ater you realy , I will.... realy !!

What's 10 gauge, about 77 cal? I have one of those. I'm too chicken to torch a slug off in that, let alone a .50.

Did the OP buy a .375 H&H yet?

Honestly though if he won't consider the .30-06, and is holding fast to his original choices I'd go with the .308. But the .375 is my go to gun for anything from deer on up, and I don't feel the .308 or 06 is enough for elk, moose, or brown bears and grizzly.

I know folks that take Elk with the .25-06 each and every year. Any, you just dissed Jack O'Connor's .270. Wonder how many elk THAT one has taken?

Not everyone wants to tote a 10 lb .375 let alone can every one shoot such a cannon as accurately as a smaller bore gun. What's right for you might not fit eveyone else's idea of nirvana. If nothing else, I think this thread has shown THAT.