Is 38 Spcl +P safe in a S&W Model 65 357 Magnum?
- Thread starter gfanikf
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1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
.38 Special +P doesn't even approach .357 Magnum pressures and recoil forces. Perfectly safe.
Carne Frio
Member
Yes, it is safe.
Thanks! I figured as much, but I'd rather take a few extra minutes to be sure than to find out the hard way!
The gun is really nice built and in pretty good shape, for $299 I felt it was a steal (especially with the original wooden S&W grips).
The 38+P topic is the new 45acp vs. 9mm topic.
Yes it's fine to shoot 38 +P in the Model 65. I shoot 38 +P+ in mine.
I was actually wondering about the +P+ stuff, but since it really is outside any normal pressure standards, I'm a tad hesitant.
Guillermo
member
Who would have thought that in 1971 when they changed the boxes on the regular 38 special ammo to say "+P" that anyone would fall for it?
Like slapping "GTO" on a Yaris and people wondering if it is too much power for the public roadways.
(shaking my head in disbelief)
Like slapping "GTO" on a Yaris and people wondering if it is too much power for the public roadways.
(shaking my head in disbelief)
I'd rather ask and seem silly, than not and seem dead if I'm wrong.
Dain Bramage
Member
I blame you 1971 guys for not calling them on it.
That and the Mustang II. And leisure suits. And disco.
Guillermo
member
gfanikf
Please don't take any offense.
I was not aiming this at you but rather the whole "+P" thing. This is a reoccurring theme. (weekly at least on THR)
Please do not ever hesitate to ask a question. We all can learn something new. (heck, I spent 30 minutes yesterday asking reloading questions at a store yesterday...so I am no exception)
If you are interested in researching the "+P phenomenon" more, our very own SaxonPig wrote a great piece on the subject.
http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2009/01/p-phenomenon-by-saxonpig.html
Best of luck
Please don't take any offense.
I was not aiming this at you but rather the whole "+P" thing. This is a reoccurring theme. (weekly at least on THR)
Please do not ever hesitate to ask a question. We all can learn something new. (heck, I spent 30 minutes yesterday asking reloading questions at a store yesterday...so I am no exception)
If you are interested in researching the "+P phenomenon" more, our very own SaxonPig wrote a great piece on the subject.
http://shootingwithhobie.blogspot.com/2009/01/p-phenomenon-by-saxonpig.html
Best of luck
Guillermo
member
Dain Bramage,
Do not blame disco on me!!!
Back then I was into cryin' and whinin' music.
Do not blame disco on me!!!
Back then I was into cryin' and whinin' music.
Dain Bramage
Member
Aha! So you admit to driving a Mustang II while wearing a leisure suit and willfully ignoring the .38 Spl +P travesty!?
I rest my case.
I rest my case.
Guillermo
member
DB,
I admit no such thing!!!
And there is no photo evidence to prove it!!!
(actually in 1971 I was leaving my Schwinn stingray in the bushes so that I could stalk the wily grey squirrel with my trusty Benjamin pump)
I admit no such thing!!!
And there is no photo evidence to prove it!!!
(actually in 1971 I was leaving my Schwinn stingray in the bushes so that I could stalk the wily grey squirrel with my trusty Benjamin pump)
GF,
No offense, but this question always causes me to wonder why people ask it.
How would using a .38 Special load in a revolver designed for hotter .357 Magnum loads not be "safe" in the gun?
Why do people think it wouldn't be?
It's always good to ask a question in learning, but that particular question mystifies me.
Denis
No offense, but this question always causes me to wonder why people ask it.
How would using a .38 Special load in a revolver designed for hotter .357 Magnum loads not be "safe" in the gun?
Why do people think it wouldn't be?
It's always good to ask a question in learning, but that particular question mystifies me.
Denis
aHFo3
Member
Is it safe to break wind while sitting on the toilet?
Nah, it's okay, I understand. Trust me I love the fact that when I had a stuck primer at 1:30 AM EST I was able to post a message and get help very quickly. I just like the amount of quality information I can get. I also figured it might be a chance to learn about pressure a little more.
Sweet I'll give that a read! I can use all the help I can get with +P and +P+ (the later I won't even touch).
Thanks!Best of luck
It's not printed on the barrel and more to the point I have a poor understand of pressures and their effects on guns at this stage of the game. I can't even began to convey the issues I had with finally shooting 5.56 out of the Mini-14 GB that I used to have. I had people saying Ruger said it's fine, and others saying I'll blow the gun up...it was confusing. I'm hoping via getting started in reloading I can gain a better knowledge of this.
Depends if you know the person in the next stall.
The other reason is a person is selling Winchester Ranger T 38 spcl +P HP rounds on a local board and I'd like a box or two.
.38 Special rounds in ANY commercial loading offer markedly lower pressures than any commercial .357 Magnum load I'm aware of.
Handloading removes most absolutes, but in commercial ammunition .38 Special renders far LESS wear & tear on a good .357 Mag revolver than magnum ammunition does.
You'll tend to get a ring of carbon inside the chamber walls just at the end of the case with prolongued firing of .38s in a magnum chamber that can eventually accumulate heavy enough to interfere with loading the longer magnum cartridges, but it's not a safety issue & just requires attention to cleaning that carbon out regularly.
Shooting .38s through a .357 is no more dangerous than shooting .22 Shorts through a .22 Long Rifle revolver. Exactly the same principle- shorter rounds in a chamber designed for a longer round with higher pressures.
Denis
Handloading removes most absolutes, but in commercial ammunition .38 Special renders far LESS wear & tear on a good .357 Mag revolver than magnum ammunition does.
You'll tend to get a ring of carbon inside the chamber walls just at the end of the case with prolongued firing of .38s in a magnum chamber that can eventually accumulate heavy enough to interfere with loading the longer magnum cartridges, but it's not a safety issue & just requires attention to cleaning that carbon out regularly.
Shooting .38s through a .357 is no more dangerous than shooting .22 Shorts through a .22 Long Rifle revolver. Exactly the same principle- shorter rounds in a chamber designed for a longer round with higher pressures.
Denis
BSA1
member
I think us Old F**ts, er, mature, er, experienced, er, AARP eligible shooters tend to forget about novices.
R.W.Dale
Member
How bout some numbers
38 spl +p 18,500 psi
357 mag 35,000 psi
End thread
posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about
38 spl +p 18,500 psi
357 mag 35,000 psi
End thread
posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Actually the .38 Special +P has been brought back to where it originally was set.
.38 Special = 17,000 PSI
.38 Special +P = 20,000 PSI
.357 Magnum = 35,000 PSI
So, even if you shoot 100 +P's a day every day you will not accelerate wear on your revolver compared to even the lightest .357 Magnum ammo.
Now we can end the thread...
(Mr. Dale made a very good point)R.W.Dale
Member
When was the +p upgraded to 20k?
Because all the sources I reference still cite 18.5k
posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about
Because all the sources I reference still cite 18.5k
posted via that mobile app with the sig lines everyone complaints about
That's funny.
Radagast
Member
From Askins on Pistols and revolver, published in the 1980s.
An interesting development with some dubious implications is the fact that some of the big ammo people aren't loading the .38 as hot right now as they were 10 years ago. Remington had a 158 grain plain lead bullet at 1090 fps and a very decent 425 ft pounds of energy in 1970, today this number only rocks along at 915 fps & produces 295 ft lb of muzzle smash.
Winchester Western, long time makers of a 150 grain metal piercing load used to soup it up to 1060 fps & 375 ft lb of muzzle gee whiz. Today this old timer has been cut back to 910 fps & 276 of ME. Just what is to gain from the +P gimmickry is any bodies guess.
These reductions are somewhat offset by Norma-Precision which continues to offer their 110 grain jacketed hollow point at 1542 fps & a resounding 580 ft lb of muzzle swoosh. this is the fastest and hottest .38 ctg on the market today. The company, which has a commendable habit of quoting breech pressures states that their ctg develops 18,400 CUP of pressure. This is quite nominal.
An interesting development with some dubious implications is the fact that some of the big ammo people aren't loading the .38 as hot right now as they were 10 years ago. Remington had a 158 grain plain lead bullet at 1090 fps and a very decent 425 ft pounds of energy in 1970, today this number only rocks along at 915 fps & produces 295 ft lb of muzzle smash.
Winchester Western, long time makers of a 150 grain metal piercing load used to soup it up to 1060 fps & 375 ft lb of muzzle gee whiz. Today this old timer has been cut back to 910 fps & 276 of ME. Just what is to gain from the +P gimmickry is any bodies guess.
These reductions are somewhat offset by Norma-Precision which continues to offer their 110 grain jacketed hollow point at 1542 fps & a resounding 580 ft lb of muzzle swoosh. this is the fastest and hottest .38 ctg on the market today. The company, which has a commendable habit of quoting breech pressures states that their ctg develops 18,400 CUP of pressure. This is quite nominal.
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