Most advanced handgun and bio-engineering

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winfried

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I have come across some good advice and information from a knowledgeable person/designer on the following. Should I buy a pistol designed by this knowledgeable person? Have you bought such a pistol?

Thanks in advance

WAH

That pistols were complicated to use.

'To Load a pistol the slide must be pulled back and pushed forward.'

'When a 'clip is empty', the slide must be pulled back, a new clip be inserted, then the slide released and moved forward.'

'These actions must be carried out against heavy spring forces and only in one sequence and can be entrusted to experienced hands.'

'The shooter cannot often tell whether the pistol is on or off safety, especially after a pause in shooting.'

'A trigger-type automatic (I am puzzled what that is, I though all pistols have a trigger) has a trigger that is cocked by the slide when a cartridge is chambered. In order to carry the loaded pistol, safely, the hammer must be uncocked.'

'Subsequent shooting requires manually cocking of the hammer by means of the trigger.'

'This procedure requires that quite some force be exerted .necessitating a long trigger stroke. The pistol is off safety after the first shot, and subsequent shots only require limited force on and a limited stroke of the trigger, so that the danger of an unintentional shot is great.'

'For safety against jarring and dropping a particular latch for the firing pin is provided that is released on operation of the trigger before the hammer strikes the firing pin.'

'And then there are pistols known, that have a separate safety to be operated with three fingers gripping the pistol grip, but it is difficult to operate the safety independently of the trigger finger so that mistakes in handling happen.
In addition , with such a pistol whenever it is solidly gripped it is off safety so that unintentional shots can be fired.'

'Another problem with known automatic pistols is that removal of the barrel for servicing the gun s fairly difficult, necessitating tools. In view of the need to maintain such complicated mechanism carefully, such difficulty is extremely disadvantageous.'

'Yet another disadvantage of the known automatic pistols is that after the last shot in a clip the slide returns forward on an empty chamber . To chamber a new cartridge it is necessary to pull back the slide , insert a new clip , then advance the slide. In a situation where a pistol is used , such extra handling is very disadvantageous.'
 
Where the heck does "bio-engineering" come into play or have anything to do with anything?

Maybe start over and rephrase the question, if indeed it was a question. Try to not be so verbose and boil it down to bones or something.
 
This sounds like a very long-winded way of explaining the way quite a few semi-automatic handguns work, but not the more modern designs.

Let's break this down:

'To Load a pistol the slide must be pulled back and pushed forward.'
Well, that's generally how almost every semi-automatic firearm works. Except that none require you to push the slide forward again. The recoil spring will do that for you. You simply have to retract the slide slightly and let it go, or just press the slide stop/release lever down.

'When a 'clip is empty', the slide must be pulled back, a new clip be inserted, then the slide released and moved forward.'
There are a few styles of automatic handgun that do not lock open after the last shot is fired, but not many. Most will lock the slide back when the magazine is empty.

'These actions must be carried out against heavy spring forces and only in one sequence and can be entrusted to experienced hands.'
Hmmm...not sure what to say to that. You need to understand how the pistol works to make it function, but 5 minutes of practice is enough to get the point across.

'The shooter cannot often tell whether the pistol is on or off safety, especially after a pause in shooting.'
Not knowing anything about this gun, I don't even know if it has a safety or a decocking lever or not. Once you understand how a gun works it is very easy to quickly tell if it is on-safe or off-safe. If you've just fired it and didn't apply the safety, it's still off-safe.

'A trigger-type automatic (I am puzzled what that is, I though all pistols have a trigger) has a trigger that is cocked by the slide when a cartridge is chambered. In order to carry the loaded pistol, safely, the hammer must be uncocked.'
This is just poor use of the words. He's describing what we call a "Double/Single-Action" automatic. And he's saying that once the gun is charged (a round is placed in the chamber) the hammer must be lowered to make the gun safe to carry. There is (usually) no separate safety to apply. Most guns of that type have a "decocking" lever that will safely drop the hammer without firing the gun. Then the first shot you take has a long, heavy pull because the trigger is cocking the hammer as you pull, not just releasing an already cocked hammer.

'Subsequent shooting requires manually cocking of the hammer by means of the trigger.'
Now this sounds more like what we'd call a "Double-Action-Only" handgun, where the hammer does not stay cocked when the slide cycles, but is lowered back onto a safety notch after every shot. Every shot you take requires a long, heavy trigger pull to cock the hammer and let it fall. A very few guns are made this way. Most are small pocket automatics designed to be very, very simple to use, needing no safety and no decocking lever. Just pull the trigger and the gun goes bang -- like a double-action revolver.

'This procedure requires that quite some force be exerted .necessitating a long trigger stroke. The pistol is off safety after the first shot, and subsequent shots only require limited force on and a limited stroke of the trigger, so that the danger of an unintentional shot is great.'
And now he's back to describing a "Double Action/Single Action" pistol where the trigger pull on the first shot is long and heavy, but the next shots are all short and light pulls, until the shooter decocks the gun to make it "safe" again.

'For safety against jarring and dropping a particular latch for the firing pin is provided that is released on operation of the trigger before the hammer strikes the firing pin.'
Almost every modern handgun has some form of internal safety mechanism that keeps it from firing if dropped or jarred.

'And then there are pistols known, that have a separate safety to be operated with three fingers gripping the pistol grip, but it is difficult to operate the safety independently of the trigger finger so that mistakes in handling happen. In addition , with such a pistol whenever it is solidly gripped it is off safety so that unintentional shots can be fired.'
There is only one gun I can think of that operates this way -- the H&K P7. They are VERY nice firearms, and not at all unsafe. But they are also heavy, expensive, and rare these days. They are a bit of an evolutionary dead end in handgun development.

'Another problem with known automatic pistols is that removal of the barrel for servicing the gun s fairly difficult, necessitating tools. In view of the need to maintain such complicated mechanism carefully, such difficulty is extremely disadvantageous.'
Almost no common service type handguns require any tools to remove the barrel for cleaning. Almost NONE. So that's just untrue.

'Yet another disadvantage of the known automatic pistols is that after the last shot in a clip the slide returns forward on an empty chamber . To chamber a new cartridge it is necessary to pull back the slide , insert a new clip , then advance the slide. In a situation where a pistol is used , such extra handling is very disadvantageous.'
We already covered this one. Only a very few (usually small and cheap) handguns do not lock back the slide when the magazine is empty. Almost every automatic handgun locks open after the last shot.

Seems like whomever wrote this doesn't know a whole lot about firearms.
 
Sam kinda touched on this, but it's also called a "magazine", not a "clip", just to add to the level of questionability in this person's firearm knowledge. I'm curious to as to:

1) What does "bio-engineering" have to do?
2) What is the actual pistol?
3) How do you explain the inconsistensies between the DA/SA and DAO mechanisms that are described at different points?
4) Are there pictures of this?

That said, just because someone doesn't use the right nomenclature doesn't mean they're wrong. Einstein had to go back to school to learn the correct syntax for writing his theories. Even so, this sounds like some weird DA/SA - DAO hybrid with a P7 safety.
 
I do not consider the quotes to indicate much knowledge at all.
Perhaps the author is promoting sale of his own design and has to make up straw man arguments against the competition.
But since you are keeping his identity and the brand of weapon secret, we cannot discuss that any further.

And furthermore, the usage indicates that it was either written by somebody not very fluent in English or awkwardly translated from some other language.
 
I think we also must consider that the OP is not a native english speaker, so let's take it easy about criticising his language. I'm sure he's more fluent in our language than we are in his...
 
The pistol that first came to mind when I read bio-engineering was the Vektor CP-1

20198-1.jpg
 
Ah, got it. German Southwest Africa, now known as Namibia.
Might have been translated from German, wiki says it is the more common language although English is official.
I note that winifred's introduction is correct English.

But lacking anything but the designer's claims, I still can't pronounce on the gun's desirability.
 
9mm, care to say why you connect it to bioengineering?

Never heard of it before, makes sense its been used in sci-fi shows/movies from the looks of it, though. And it's from South Africa, which puts it close to the OP.
 
9mm, care to say why you connect it to bioengineering?

Never heard of it before, makes sense its been used in sci-fi shows/movies from the looks of it, though. And it's from South Africa, which puts it close to the OP.
The CP-1 is actually quite a basic pistol.

What made it unusual is that the company took it to a college design class and let them design the exterior to optimally work with the human hand.

It is along the lines of Nikon having the body of the F4/5 designed by the same designer who did the Lotus Esprit and the Beretta 90-Two
 
What made it unusual is that the company took it to a college design class and let them design the exterior to optimally work with the human hand.

A human hand or the human hand? I ask that because of how hard it is to find gloves that fit both my palm and fingers comfortably.
 
Skribs. You have that problem, too? My hands are large width and thickness, but my fingers are medium length.
 
Winfried- I say go ahead and buy the pistol, but don't buy anything else this guy ever wrote. His descriptions are downright hazardous!
 
Hi, read it carefully! One hand holds the pistol, one hand pulls the slide back and holds it open and the third hand changes the clip. That is where bioengineering comes in, or a second person to lend you a hand.

I could not think of any modern pistol that requires tools to strip.

The originator of that paper seems to believe that he created the FIRST MODERN HANDGUN. It was non other than Mr. Gaston Glock in a 1988 patent application.
No wonder the blow up, no wonder they cant get the hardening right. No wonder they need retrofits extensively and it must be the only pistol in the world for which a term of a particular malfunction was coined.
I am glad I do not own a Glock. I hope you enjoy your glock.

The PDF attachment is the same text with my snotty comments added in italics and high-lighted.

Regards

WAH
 

Attachments

  • Glock's outlandish claims.pdf
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To use my slender 5 digit hand extensions, I will methodically press the lettered squares, "keys" if you will, on my flat surface. In turn, pressing these "keys" will produce corresponding symbols, or "letters." These letters, when put together, form "words" and, in the correct order, sentences. These ideas are decoded and recoded, and transmitted using electrods. Others can read this on their own square devices.
 
I think it's pretty well known that G. Glock wasn't a gun guru when he designed his pistol. And a bad translation from German would explain some of the strange syntax.

It kind of doesn't matter what anyone -- including the inventor -- said about the Glock pistol or any other pistols way back then. If they didn't work very well for a great number of people, they wouldn't be where they are in the competition world. Or the duty gun world, either.
 
Well that'll learn us. We'd make poor middle-school teachers.. shoulda cut and pasted part of that into a search engine for a "match".. yep, there it is.

Yea, German syntax/convention is all catywompus to ours.. so I hear.
 
Does the location from which someone posts, or lists as his location in his profile, indicate what that person's native language is? Over my career, assuming I changed my profile to indicate my physical location, I might have posted to THR from a dozen different countries in which English is not the official or most commonly spoken/written language, but my native language is English.

I do own a Glock, but the one I have has little in common with the description in the OP. Thanks, though, Winfried, for the morning's entertainment. Most original Glock-bashing post I've seen on THR.
 
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