Who uses a Pistol Grip ONLY?

I think people mostly avoid them because of the lack of accuracy and the recoil. To be accurate you would have to sight down the barrel, anything else would be shooting from the hip or the equivalent. You could learn to be accurate that way, but only with lots of practice.
The only advantage I see is a smaller package and more rounds per same overall length as a shoulder stocked shotty.

Please dont sight down the barrel. ( unless you are good friends with a plastic surgeon ).
T

T Bran said:

Please dont sight down the barrel. ( unless you are good friends with a plastic surgeon ).
T

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I have seen people do this holding the gun a little further out than a shoulder stocked shotty, but yeah, don't get too close.

The only real advantage to a pistol grip is for its compactness and ease of use for breaching doors. In other words, it doesn't have much practical use for the average shooter, and for most people it's not nearly as effective as a traditional stock for common shotgun tasks.

They can be shot with respectable speed and accuracy by sighting down the barrel. Even buck and slugs aren't too punishing unless you get into the magnum loads.

You have to apply some muscle tension though, don't just hold it out there like its a cup of coffee or something.

Still, I would prefer a full stock for almost every purpose.

There's probably more than you wanted to know about P.G.O. shotguns in that thread. I'm sure it won't take you long to get the feeling that P.G.O. shotguns are generally shunned on here. Also, it would probably be beneficial (and entertaining) to read through those 101 threads. Lots of good reading there.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=44465

A laser sight or even a weapon light with a small hot spot can make aiming from the hip (or elbow level more likely) fairly accurate.

It will never be as fast as a full stock shorty on recovery or acquisition but that doesn't mean it might as well be a sharp stick as some around here seem to think.

The Hogue Tamer grip works awesome. I installed one on my Mossberg 500 and my Remington 870 magnum express.

Highly recommend them!

Do we have to do this again, friends? Our esteemed moderator Mr. McCracken put this in the notes at the top, and in his 101 series. Also, it is a shotgun, not a purse. Who really cares how cool a Pistol Grip (Only) looks. If you don't bust doors, or ride in a cruiser for a paycheck, you probably should have a stock on your shotgun.

Your dental surgeon will thank you....

1)Are pistol grips that bad? If so, why do people use them?

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Unequivocally, yes, they really are that bad.
People use them because they think that looking cool somehow translates to effectiveness.

2)Can accuracy be achieved with a pistol grip?

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Put enough time into anything, and you can achieve impressive feats. There's video of Bob Munden hitting a balloon with a snub-nosed .38 special at 200 yards. That doesn't mean that a snub-nosed .38 is a better choice than a rifle.

3)Are there any other advantages to a pistol grip besides looking cool?

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There's an argument to be made that the lack of a stock makes them much easier to stow and use in a tight space like a car, or reduces the amount of weight you have to carry if you intend to do some serious back-woods hiking. Some advocates for PGO shotguns will also claim that these guns are more easily maneuvered in tight quarters, like the inside of a house.

I would argue that the functional penalties* that a stockless shotgun incurs are much worse than having to put up with either of those disadvantages. If space/weight is really that much of a concern, you're probably better off jumping through the hoops to get an SBS, or use a pistol or bullpup shotgun or rifle.





*Off the top of my head:

1.) Inability to aim them accurately and with consistency.
2.) Slower to cycle.
3.) Slower transitions from one target to the next.
4.) Inability to use many kinds of ammunition due to the excessive recoil.
5.) Gaining proficiency requires that you invest much more time, energy, and ammunition than with a properly-stocked gun.
6.) Successfully aiming a PGO shotgun from an odd position that you haven't practiced (prone, rollover prone, at a target that is markedly higher or lower than you're used to, or through an oddly-shaped or small port) is much, much harder to do than with a properly stocked shotgun.
7.) An excessive penalty against being able to make rapid, accurate hits at further ranges** with slugs.
8.) An almost complete inability to hit flying targets***.


**Yes, I've seen the Hickock 45 video, and am aware that it can be done, but clearly not quickly, and certainly not without a lot of practice.

***Yes, I know, your PGO shotgun isn't for trap shooting. It doesn't change the fact that removing the stock also removes your odds of hitting a bird, be it clay or otherwise.

What I want to know is:
1)Are pistol grips that bad? If so, why do people use them?

2)Can accuracy be achieved with a pistol grip?

3)Are there any other advantages to a pistol grip besides looking cool?

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1 - only mall ninjas use them
2 - no
3 - they don't even look cool, so no advantages whatsoever

1)Are pistol grips that bad? If so, why do people use them?

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Yes. They are "that" bad. They are not UN-usable. They are simply far, FAR less usable, efficient, effective, quick to handle/aim/point, and achieve accurate hits with than full-stocked guns.

As a range toy they are a lot of fun and quite challenging. As a serious defensive or hunting weapon, they are utter foolishness as you're either risking wounding & loss of a game animal just to play with a "dumb" gun, or you're risking your very life trying to prevent your own death with a tool that is very difficult to make effective hits with.

2)Can accuracy be achieved with a pistol grip?

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Yes. If you have a lot of time to make your shot -- the luxury of a slow, careful presentation to line up the un-anchored rear of the receiver with the bead on the barrel properly -- you can hit a static target. Wingshooting (or shooting anything on the move) is a whole different problem and takes so much dedicated practice that it would be completely unreasonable for the average "good" shooter to devote him/herself to.

3)Are there any other advantages to a pistol grip besides looking cool?

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It is certainly the most compact way to store a shotgun in firing condition. If you have NO other room to carry a firearm and compactness will truly trump your need to be most likely to hit what you will shoot at, then they may be a well-considered choice. In most of those cases, a much easier to shoot AND store handgun would probably be a much better idea, but sometimes folks believe they'd be better served by a big impressive-looking gun than a little less-impressive-looking pistol or revolver.

Who uses a Pistol Grip ONLY?

I do - on all my pistols.

Not on the shotguns I depend on in for serious use, though. But you should try one for yourself, so you will know for sure from your own experience, not from what a bunch of strangers tell you on the iNt3Rw3Bz.

BTW, I DO have ONE shotgun with a pistol grip... a High Standard 10A semiautomatic.



- image from http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/High_Standard_Model_10

Fred Fuller said:

you should try one for yourself, so you will know for sure from your own experience, not from what a bunch of strangers tell you on the iNt3Rw3Bz.

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This for the win. No matter what you post about here, you will find plenty of people telling you it is the worst thing ever.

Even when it flies in the face of your own experience, plenty of folks just live to tell you you're wrong.

The only time I have ever used a PGO shotgun was for ballistically breaching doors. As soon as the door was breached it went back onto my back and my carbine was in my hands. There was no aiming involved as I merely had to hold the end of the barrel about an inch off of the hinges.

Now, if you are thinking about breaching doors, ballistic breaching is slow, loud and not nearly as effective as explosive or mechanical.

If you don't plan on doing any breaching you might want to think about just going with a standard stock.

How do you guys present a full stock in a home defense situation? How do do you maneuver through doors and how do you search corners?

Simple - I let the dogs (two Fila Brasileiros and a Brittany) do the searching part . Meanwhile I'm behind the bed opposite the bedroom door with my back against the wall, with the 'house gun' pointed at the door.

Training is the answer to most "how do..." questions. A good fighting shotgun class will address moving in structures with a shotgun. The NRA's Personal Protection In The Home class is IMHO the gold standard basic guide to home defense, even though this class emphasizes handguns rather than shotguns. It teaches hunkering down with a firearm and a phone, rather than going forth and looking for trouble. Folks I know who do house clearing for a living consider solo efforts in house clearing suicidal. I don't generally argue with people who know more than I do.

The big thing is KNOWING whether there really are intruders, or if the noise that woke you up was just the cat knocking over something. And the answer to that is that security comes in layers. Make sure no one can get into your home without raising a ruckus, and then you won't have to worry about whether it was the cat, or some latter day Charles Manson crew that made that noise.

I own a mossberg 300 A 12 gauge pump
with pistol grips. its my home defense weapon
i find it a very good weapon to grab aholt of in the middle of the night an point towards the door. it rests in a old saddle rifle scabbard on my bed post
loaded with # 7 shot then 3- 00 bucks then slugs
It's short enough to be able to walk thru the house without bumping into door jambs.and lets face it, if you hear that chik-chik as you eject the #7 and load a 00 buck. that alone will scare the pi$$ out of most folks
its a shotgun, i fire it from the hip. i figure in a home invasion situation i will be shootin no more than 20 feet
and in 20 feet, your leg is gone perp is stopped cold.
the 00 is for stopping him. the slugs are for killing him as he runs twards the door.
I may be wrong in my thinking, but if your in my house. at nite .I will shoot you in the back,side, front
this is not the old west. I wont feel bad about a back shot at all

How do you guys present a full stock in a home defense situation? How do do you maneuver through doors and how do you search corners?

Simple - I let the dogs (two Fila Brasileiros and a Brittany) do the searching part . Meanwhile I'm behind the bed opposite the bedroom door with my back against the wall, with the 'house gun' pointed at the door.

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+1

Breaching your own doors and doing room sweeps looks good in video games and on police shows, reality is something entirely different

I bought the Mossberg Combo kit 22 years ago. It came with the two barrels, full length stock, and the pistol grip.

I put the pistol grip on the gun one time, took it to the range and shot it, and as soon as I got home I put the full length stock back on. For a little fun it is fine but like others have stated, in a hunting or defense scenario it makes the gun more difficult to control.

Ive got a Hogue tamer, with 2 3/4 shells its not so bad I've even put some buckshot threw it, haven't punched my self in the face yet! a friend did though
I use it just to waste shells mostly

I have a Hogue Tamer on a Mossy 500 - until this weekend, when I'm putting a pistol-grip stock on it. Waste of time and money, IMO.