When did the gun market shift to collectors & accumulators?

naughty bushmaster!!( how much u need for the Model 37?)

When the econ. hits the dumps, people sell their guns, and we smart ones have held out to invest therein.

I used to study in my car, in the Gander MT. parking lot, waiting to see the cases going in: Gander wants to rip em, and I want to invest in new steel. Match made in firearms nirvana!

bushmaster1313 said:

IMHO, a very large proportion of the guns bought today by private citizens in the USA are bought by people (bless their hearts) who already have all the guns that they really need for defense, hunting and recreation.

I am sure that this has not always been the case, and in the not too distant past, most gun owners felt lucky to have a gun, and if they were real lucky, to have a rifle, a shotgun and a handgun.

When did the market turn to lots and lots of guns being bought by people who already had lots of guns?

Click to expand...

I am not convinced that your premise is true and you have offered no real evidence that it is. As long as I have been aware of being around guns (1970's) all the gun enthusiasts I have known were always looking for that next desirable firearm. People who collected muzzle loaders, military guns, hand guns, specific manufacturers, etc.

I suspect that what is really going on is that it seems much more prevalent because everyone is on the interwebs bragging about their collections or latest purchases. Because of this, we are more aware of how many people buy lots of guns.

That being said, I believe the advent of liberal presidents being elected and re-elected serves to speed up the acquisition process, especially for those of us who covet certain guns that will most likely be the first targets of non-thinking liberal presidents that insist on saving all of us from ourselves and inanimate objects.

Collecting arms is as old as mans first arms. Why do you think you can go to a museum and see arms from the Revolutionary War or Civil War, F&I War. Guns from the Western expansion or "Cowboy" arms. Guns of Europe German and Swiss Yeagers dating to the 1500s. Thanks to gun collectors.

As for gun shows when did they start? The gun shows as we know them started in the 1950s. Gun shows were for gun collectors and shooters hunters etc. They needed a place to trade and find firearms not sold in hardware stores of the day. No dealers attended gun shows they were for private sales. The National Pawn Brokers Assoc. and Gun Dealers Assoc. saw Gun Shows as their enemy. The passage of the 1968 Gun Laws attacked private gun sales. A system for Dealers having an FFL and the Form 4473 was introduced. The new BATF was established to enforce these rules. Now full circle another lost freedom. The gun shows are now weekend "Flea Markets" for FFL Dealers.

I started to accumulate and collect guns when I came back from Iraq in 2005. I rejoiced it the fact that the 94 AWB expired and "pre ban" configurations were affordable once again. Then I started collecting all those guns I used to have when I was younger and never imagined they would be banned from importation. Then I started collecting WWII rifles, then pistols, and now I started buying guns that might not catch on like the SCAR 17, Vector Kriss, Keltec KSG, and PMR 30.

It helps that I'm single with no kids, just me, the cats, and a lot of guns (171 so far).

I started in the gun hobby buying only guns I needed. Then I bought only guns I would shoot a lot. Then I bought guns that I thought would serve a purpose. Then I bought some C&R guns that I knew I would never have another chance to buy at good prices, or ever. Then I bought some classics that I enjoyed shooting. Then I decided that since I don't do most of the expensive hobbies I used to do anymore that I'd start buying what I liked. Then SWMBO decided that I needed a $200 limit on unapproved purchases. It's amazing what kind of high-quality basic firearms you can buy for under $200 if you look around and discover where they turn up.

Nothing shifted.
Some people buy one gun and that meets their needs. Some people buy two guns and that meets their needs. Some people buy 12 guns and that meets their needs.
This is like asking; "When did the shift to owning 200 PEZ dispensers happen?". Hobbies and hobbyists come in all flavors.
Personally, I have owned a lot more than 5 guns for at least 4 decades.

I know a lot of people who bought their first gun in the past 5 or so years. So while collectors and accumulators will always buy, there is no shortage of new buyers out there. That being said I don't have any hard data on the percentages (and I'm glad things like that aren't openly tracked to produce such data).

I would say after WWII when all the G.I. bring-backs and military surplus weaponry was imported into this country. Couple that with a booming post war economy and a larger segment of the population beecoming interested in collecting firearms, and having the means to do so.

eldon519 said:

You pretty much answered your own question before you asked it. Collectors and accumulators buy lots of firearms, thus the market caters to them because they are the ones doing the buying. If you buy a handful of guns and call it quits, you're no longer a customer, so why cater to you?

Click to expand...

That's about the most clear and concise answer I've read. Why would a market cater to the segment that isn't buying their products?

bushmaster1313 said:

I confess that I was feeling very guilty about having so many shotguns to the exclusion of other worthwhile interests.
I did my penance by selling half of the shotguns and buying a handful of centerfire rifles.

Click to expand...

If that was your 'penance', I would like to ask the name of your priest. He sounds like my kind of 'confessor'.

The gun shows as we know them started in the 1950s. Gun shows were for gun collectors and shooters hunters etc. They needed a place to trade and find firearms not sold in hardware stores of the day.

Click to expand...

yeah I had some older gun friends tell me about those fun times, I started going to gunshows in the early 70's and noticed a change for the worse by the late 80's

A long time ago! Think back to the good olde days of the ads for Milsurps in American Rifleman ... you know, the early 60's and the first, great wave of "CHEAP" arms (of course, back then we all made a lot less per week). I've been a collector/shooter since the 60's and finally have reached a point where the guns I don't have, I know I never will (Jap Type 5, Enfield No I Mk VI), but that's OK 'cause I have enough to keep me busy and out of trouble.

I shift to accumulator every time the economy takes a hit and those that need the cash more than their unused firearm seek me out. Seems to happen with regularity as of late. And yeah it does help to be single and well established at my great job.

About the same time the average house became 2500 sq ft, everyone has 2-3 cars and replaces them every 5 years, every house has 4 TVs and 2 computers

I think some of that is just perception.
The forums are going to have more collectors because collectors are people that have a high enough interest in firearms to seek out others and talk about them.

The gun stores though have had a lot of new buyers since the first Obama election scared many into thinking they had to buy soon. I saw many people buying thier first gun since 2008, or first new type of gun.


However collectors are also going to be a good market to cater to. Modern quality firearms are durable and can last a long time. Ammunition adds up, and to burn through enough ammo to wear out most quality firearms would cost many times what the gun is worth in ammunition.
So this means the reliable market is people that are going to buy several guns out of interest and not people that actually shoot the guns enough to need to replace the old ones.
Marketing to first time gun buyers is hard..how do you find them and market to them? Scare tactics to need a firearm for self defense typically. But thats not really an informed crowd that is going to appreciate many qualities of various firearms.
You also don't know they actually will buy a gun. So even knowing you found them is unreliable.
Compare that to collectors. You know where they are, how to market to them, that they will appreciate various designs including some that are only slightly different than one they already have, yet to them is still different enough to consider buying it.
They are often better informed, and will appreciate materials or quality that is beyond just function, and that you can charge more for. And they may buy multiple of such guns, and are likely to be in contact with other collectors and so may recommend further business yet.
So often times profit is greater too compared to some guy trying to get a defensive firearm that just needs it to fire rounds and doesn't want it to cost more than that other plastic gun.


As for disposable income being new. That is also perception. People used to be ashamed to have much debt, so the average person didn't owe much. Today it is normal to have long term payments for vehicles, massive long term debt for houses, nevermind credit cards and other debt. Is it really disposable income if they still owe half what thier house costs, but they are spending a fraction of that on guns or tvs or other listed devices?
It would seem that some decades ago people owned thier homes and vehicles a lot faster than they do today on average.
Maybe they were the ones that really had disposable income, it just didn't seem like it because they were spending it in smaller quantities as they made it, but what they did buy was in addition to the big ticket things they actually owned.

I believe it started in 2008.

surjimmy, no it was in 2004.
The market went flatline from 1994 until 2004 when the assault rifle ban was lifted but even then guns were being bought and sold.
I got into western black powder cartridge guns during the ban...

For some collecting fine arms show that they appreciate the skill of the gun smiths and the ability of a stock maker to pick out a stock blanks and turn then into a work of art. For some it takes years for them to master the skill to make fine arms. Most factury arms will look crude when compared with fine arms. Collecting fine arms has ben common for a lot of years.

it started at the same time as regular consumerism.

There was a time when people had one pair of shoes, one nice dress/suit and one older dress/suit...and that was that.

Houses containing 2 adults and 6 kids managed with one bathroom. Kids shared rooms and shared beds.

After WW2 the consumer boom was born.

Not only do people have more guns than they really need, they have more jackets, more shoes, more pants, more kitchen gear, more media equipment, more rooms, more everything, well beyond 'cover all your basics'


Of course there have always been the exceptionally wealthy who broke the mold by having multiple high end guns, but they also had multiple high end shoes, furniture, homes, cloths, etc.

Biggest difference now seems to be the rich have a pile of high end items of group x and the middle class has a pile of cheap items of group X. Maybe the middle class would be better off by having 1 high end item rather than 10 low end items

akodo's post is very accurate. It makes me sad that we, as a society have become so addicted to things.

^Worse than that Americans are addicted to credit

There have always been collectors but I think the internet has fueled a lot of the interest in guns. People come on forums such as this one where the real enthusiasts hang out and talk about guns, they get excited about guns and go out and buy one.
I really do think the "hype" on the internet has fueled a lot of the sales.
Do you think Pythons would be bringing what they do without all the chatter on the gun forums ?
It's absolutely insane what some guns are bringing these days. And it's a shame that some of these guns will never be shot. People are just buying them to make a buck at a later date. Shooting them might decrease the value. A crying shame.

In my lifetime I have seen American people become very materialistic. It is just as akodo stated.

This is one of the more interesting descussions on the forum, not sure when this all started, I do not see it as a recent thing. We might as well blame it on the industrial revolution, Henry Ford or the endless wars that keep rolling around.

First, each time a war rolls around there is a sharp increase in the number for firearms that are produced, resulting in an excess of collectable ones from previous wars as well as excess production when the war ends. Costs of owership goes down and sales go up as well as collections.

Interesting thought, if 500 years ago Beretta had CNC machines to mass produce firearms, would we be speaking Italian today instead of english. Or is Henry Ford really the father of the ability to produce so many AR's today.

Why do so many collect more than one gun, BECAUSE they can.

Jim


I have to go figure out how many I have to sell, I have over the 20 per owner mark.