Wives and guns
- Thread starter Trent
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Yeah that was a well thought out and very good post, USN. Plenty of food for thought there.
On a related note; rather than stick her with one of "my" guns (as she views them), we went shopping today.
She picked herself out a Walther PK380 with a "pretty" stainless slide.
.380 is a bit anemic, but it's certainly better than nothing, and maybe a stepping stone to greater adventures later. Recoil will be very light, so it should help prevent bad habits from forming early on.
On the way home she was asking about how women carry guns.
I said "well, you got a lot more options than men do. Purse, holster, etc."
Will see if I can nudge her over to Cornered Cat at some point. They'll have answers I can't give.
On a related note; rather than stick her with one of "my" guns (as she views them), we went shopping today.
She picked herself out a Walther PK380 with a "pretty" stainless slide.
.380 is a bit anemic, but it's certainly better than nothing, and maybe a stepping stone to greater adventures later. Recoil will be very light, so it should help prevent bad habits from forming early on.
On the way home she was asking about how women carry guns.
I said "well, you got a lot more options than men do. Purse, holster, etc."
Will see if I can nudge her over to Cornered Cat at some point. They'll have answers I can't give.
sgtstryker
Member
I think you may have things squared away, Trent, good luck. Even though my wife enjoys shooting, she will not get her license to carry. She will keep one one with her when I am not home, in the vehicle and nearby while home. At least she tells me she does. When asked why? She cites legalities after a shooting. Her family experienced this years ago, so she has seen it firsthand. However, we continue to shoot together and she understands my affliction towards guns.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
You're welcome, Trent.
Good idea! Ownership brings about a feeling of pride and interest.
I bolded some key points here. You should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER say ANYTHING like this to her about her decision. Refering to her decision as "pretty" on a hobby that very likely comes across as "manly" with respect to you will seem condescending. Refering to her choice as "anemic" and "better than nothing" may very well come across as downright insulting.
Here's your chance to SHINE! This is an area of relative "ignorance" to you, beyond some superficial knowledge. It's an opportunity to learn something new together.
One thing that really gets under the skin of wives/significant others is anything which even HINTS at a "know-it-all" attitude or stand. ESPECIALLY if they're already on edge about something. You are somewhat of an expert with guns. She is not. This can be both intimidating AND aggrevating to her. One way to get around this is to adopt a slightly different approach to her questions: Instead of giving her the answers, or worse TELLING her (yeah...there's a difference. Just ask a woman...), try coming at it differently by suggesting "let's look it up", "let's see what (some reference) says", or some such. Heck, just saying "I don't know, let me get back to you on that" will be great! (Don't lie on this, though.) There is some matter of pride in a question which reveals a weakness in the teacher, because it indicates the student is intelligent enough to come up with it.
The advantage to this is several fold. It keeps you from coming across as a "know-it-all", it gets the two of you to work together to find the answer(s), it introduces her to other resources she can use on her own, and probably a whole host of other positive things.
A wise man once said of married men: "You can be right, or you can be happy."
Good idea! Ownership brings about a feeling of pride and interest.
I bolded some key points here. You should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER say ANYTHING like this to her about her decision. Refering to her decision as "pretty" on a hobby that very likely comes across as "manly" with respect to you will seem condescending. Refering to her choice as "anemic" and "better than nothing" may very well come across as downright insulting.
On the way home she was asking about how women carry guns.
I said "well, you got a lot more options than men do. Purse, holster, etc."
Here's your chance to SHINE! This is an area of relative "ignorance" to you, beyond some superficial knowledge. It's an opportunity to learn something new together.
One thing that really gets under the skin of wives/significant others is anything which even HINTS at a "know-it-all" attitude or stand. ESPECIALLY if they're already on edge about something. You are somewhat of an expert with guns. She is not. This can be both intimidating AND aggrevating to her. One way to get around this is to adopt a slightly different approach to her questions: Instead of giving her the answers, or worse TELLING her (yeah...there's a difference. Just ask a woman...), try coming at it differently by suggesting "let's look it up", "let's see what (some reference) says", or some such. Heck, just saying "I don't know, let me get back to you on that" will be great! (Don't lie on this, though.) There is some matter of pride in a question which reveals a weakness in the teacher, because it indicates the student is intelligent enough to come up with it.
The advantage to this is several fold. It keeps you from coming across as a "know-it-all", it gets the two of you to work together to find the answer(s), it introduces her to other resources she can use on her own, and probably a whole host of other positive things.
A wise man once said of married men: "You can be right, or you can be happy."
doc2rn
Member
Trent- I have one bit of advice to keep the peace, hire a maid on occassion to take some of the pressure off the wife. I did this once and its amazing how quickly the women folk like the idea. It lets them do what they want, and it makes the tension between the two of you go away.
Who knows she may even use the freed up time to go shooting....
Who knows she may even use the freed up time to go shooting....
I never stopped to think about it before, but yeah, that's definitely right. I just spent 5 minutes wracking my brain trying to remember if I said anything like that at the gun shop. I think the worst I said when she handed me the Walther PK380 was "wow! I can almost wrap my hand around this twice."
I should definitely be more careful about that stuff.
I *will* say that the little Walther PK380 just got a LOT more interesting to me due to it's size, now that the Federal court ruling came down in Illinois. We didn't KNOW we were going to get concealed carry at the time this thread started. Now it's doubly relevant.
I'm not gonna lie, I don't know diddly squat about how women carry firearms. In fact, I know very little about concealed carry itself, since we've never HAD it here in Illinois. My exposure to CCW is limited use around my house (going out after dark) and at my office. Only CCW rig I have is an IWB leather holster for my Taurus PT92, I have no experience with any other types of concealed carry setups. When on my property (shooting, whatever) I usually carry a handgun in a normal hip holster, exposed.
I do come across as a know it all when talking about something I find interesting; freely admit that. I remember everything I read (can even picture stuff I read as far back as grade school like I'm looking at it right now). So I tend to ramble on, and on.. and on.. and on .. and on.. about whatever.
Meanwhile the person I talk to falls asleep or shifts around before finally saying something like "oh that's nice" and walks off.
(I was blessed with retention; cursed with a serious social deficiency)
PaisteMage
Member
I am totally in that situation.
I tell her she should know how to use them.
Tell her she could shoot .22's at the rang or just hang out.
She says she shot in high school a few times and has no interest.
She DOES have an interest in archery. I don't own a bow or anything, but I figure that would maybe get her to got to range with me and the kids one day (when they are older). She could go by herself or with one of them, and understand at least on a fundamental WHY I shoot things.
My advice would to clear up some things nonchalantly.
I tell her she should know how to use them.
Tell her she could shoot .22's at the rang or just hang out.
She says she shot in high school a few times and has no interest.
She DOES have an interest in archery. I don't own a bow or anything, but I figure that would maybe get her to got to range with me and the kids one day (when they are older). She could go by herself or with one of them, and understand at least on a fundamental WHY I shoot things.
My advice would to clear up some things nonchalantly.
rskent
Member
My advise- love her for who she is and let the gun thing go.
"It bothers me a little, because I'd really like for her to be able to effectively use them to defend herself if I'm away."
Doesn't sound to me as if he's talking about his hobby at all. Sounds as if he wants his wife to be able to defend herself--at least that's what he actually said.
Doesn't sound to me as if he's talking about his hobby at all. Sounds as if he wants his wife to be able to defend herself--at least that's what he actually said.
bobinoregon
Member
My wife doesnt have a problem with my fascination with and collecting of guns. She deals with the reloading addiction. She has her hobbies and I have mine. All I expect from her is that she is familiar with and can make any gun we own function, and that is something she can do rather well. She has a couple pistols of her own that never see daylight, but if we go shooting somewhere she will shoot whatever I brought that day. She even bought me an AR for Christmas one year completely on her own, my life just isnt that bad.
Some of you guys definitely get it, others not so much. Whomever said you are there to hold the purse got it right.
My boyfriend thought he was Mr. Knowledgeable about guns until he realized I not only know way more than him about my guns of choice and concealed carry issues, but that I also shoot more accurately than he does. We don't even go to the range together - I go with my friends, he goes with his. Kind of lame, since it would be fun to go together, but our shared fun activities are now riding horses and shopping for guns.
For the guys saying you expect your wife to know how to use the guns in the house and defend herself, maybe give her other tools and options for that. Martial arts training is good, a large, well-trained dog would be my preference. I have zero desire to learn how to use my boyfriend's guns - I just don't find them interesting.
My boyfriend thought he was Mr. Knowledgeable about guns until he realized I not only know way more than him about my guns of choice and concealed carry issues, but that I also shoot more accurately than he does. We don't even go to the range together - I go with my friends, he goes with his. Kind of lame, since it would be fun to go together, but our shared fun activities are now riding horses and shopping for guns.
For the guys saying you expect your wife to know how to use the guns in the house and defend herself, maybe give her other tools and options for that. Martial arts training is good, a large, well-trained dog would be my preference. I have zero desire to learn how to use my boyfriend's guns - I just don't find them interesting.
As far as being supportive of my hobby, I've never said she wasn't. My wife has given me some of the best gifts on birthdays and Christmas, generally gun related. She gave me a really nice range bag a few years ago. She gave me a gun cleaning vice another year. Electronic hearing protection another year.
This year she gave me some early presents more related to survival than firearms but still really thoughtful; a crank operated cell phone / battery charger / radio, emergency water purification gear, and other survival 'stuff'.
Yesterday she gave some constructive advice on how to rearrange the "store room" better (where we keep emergency water, food, medical supplies, etc.)
So it's not like we have a hostile relationship or anything. I don't know what I said to give people that impression, but the worst arguments we ever have are better that the best day MY parents ever had. It's not an unhappy environment.
The issue is she has shown very little interest in learning to shoot, or practicing shooting skills, and I want her to be able to effectively defend herself.
I just want her to be able to pick up a handgun, know how to load it, know how to use it (shooting, handling malfunctions, etc), and most importantly know WHEN to use it.
I don't want / need her to learn to handload ammo, or clean a belt fed gun, or set up the DShK tripod, zero a scope, or learn exterior ballistics so she can make 800+ yard shots.
There's a difference between practical application of handguns for defense, and other aspects of the hobby which are more in depth than she'd ever want to get involved with.
This being said, after watching what my Aunt went through when my uncle unexpectedly passed, I made sure she has a list of all firearms and knows their value. That way if anything ever happens to me, she'll know A) what I have, and B) what it's worth. I've also noted what I'd like to go to which kids so she can arrange it when the time is right; and she'll know what she can sell for money to survive without violating those wishes.
This year she gave me some early presents more related to survival than firearms but still really thoughtful; a crank operated cell phone / battery charger / radio, emergency water purification gear, and other survival 'stuff'.
Yesterday she gave some constructive advice on how to rearrange the "store room" better (where we keep emergency water, food, medical supplies, etc.)
So it's not like we have a hostile relationship or anything. I don't know what I said to give people that impression, but the worst arguments we ever have are better that the best day MY parents ever had. It's not an unhappy environment.
The issue is she has shown very little interest in learning to shoot, or practicing shooting skills, and I want her to be able to effectively defend herself.
I just want her to be able to pick up a handgun, know how to load it, know how to use it (shooting, handling malfunctions, etc), and most importantly know WHEN to use it.
I don't want / need her to learn to handload ammo, or clean a belt fed gun, or set up the DShK tripod, zero a scope, or learn exterior ballistics so she can make 800+ yard shots.
There's a difference between practical application of handguns for defense, and other aspects of the hobby which are more in depth than she'd ever want to get involved with.
This being said, after watching what my Aunt went through when my uncle unexpectedly passed, I made sure she has a list of all firearms and knows their value. That way if anything ever happens to me, she'll know A) what I have, and B) what it's worth. I've also noted what I'd like to go to which kids so she can arrange it when the time is right; and she'll know what she can sell for money to survive without violating those wishes.
A couple of years ago, an entire family was butchered by hand weapons not far from here. The sole survivor was a young toddler who was discovered still alive, life-flighted, and admitted in critical condition.
That experience really shook things up. I did NOT typically keep weapons in a ready state in our home prior to that incident. (A complicating factor at the time, is I had toddlers of my own, so guns were secure and stored separately from the ammo, to avoid any horrible accidents; my children are older now).
A more recent incident occurred just recently. One of my neighbors was robbed at gun point by FIVE armed intruders. They waited for the father to leave for work (3rd shift) and then went in to clean the house out while the mother and her two children were asleep in bed. Fortunately, no one was injured. But the police did NOT catch the intruders, althought the prime suspect was a gangbanger from Peoria (about 45 mins away).
That was the second of TWO home invasions on the same day. They caught the other people, and recovered the guns stolen.
Around the same time, a robber walked in to the local bank in our nearest little farm town, and robbed it at gun point in broad daylight. He got away on foot, was never caught.
There are many other issues in the news; 15 heroin overdoses in our rural county this year, etc.
We live 20 miles outside of town, police and EMS take between 20-30 minutes to respond when called. We're literally on our own.
In addition to the firearms training, we now run home invasion drills just like fire and tornado drills. It's important for my children to understand what to do if 5 armed intruders kick in the door in the middle of the night, like what happened at our neighbors house.
Recognizing that my odds in a 5 on 1 fight are very grim, our defense plan includes layered defenses. If I go down, my 15 year old son is in a position between the intruders and the rest of the family, in a hardened position with a superior line of fire. If the bad guys want to get to my family they'll suffer losses. If HE also goes down, my wife is next in line to guard the little ones on the next level of the house. (This is just ONE scenario, there are others we run which unfold differently, with people in different places, with me absent, and so on.)
Martial arts training is a great idea, but it is impractical for a 110 pound teenager or a 120 pound female to take on a 180+ pound aggressive male; let alone multiple intruders. I've got over 25 years of martial arts training including 20 years of instruction. (Not trying to be discriminating here; there is value in Martial arts training, but it takes YEARS and a LOT of dedication for a smaller person to achieve a level of competency that would allow them to stand a chance against a person 2+ times as strong as them.)
My older two boys each had two and a half years of hand to hand training twice weekly, before they lost interest; my wife none; she has zero interest.
Also due to our distance, and the response time of EMS, I've also learned a LOT more than I did previously about how to treat severe injury and stabilize people. We keep a pretty healthy first aid kit handy, which includes gear necessary for treatment of severe injury. Blood clotters, severe burn treatment, sterile tools for treating collapsed lungs, windpipe breathing tube windpipe insertion, etc.
I'm considering taking EMS training next spring to augment the basic skills I've learned.
I'm considering taking EMS training next spring to augment the basic skills I've learned.
Walther PK380 Stainless located and paid for.
Just an annoying 72 hour wait before I got her stocking stuffer.
Ridiculous that I have to wait 3 days to pick up a gun. If I wanted to shoot someone I have 87 other firearms to choose from.
"Cooling off" periods .. sigh.
Just an annoying 72 hour wait before I got her stocking stuffer.
Ridiculous that I have to wait 3 days to pick up a gun. If I wanted to shoot someone I have 87 other firearms to choose from.
"Cooling off" periods .. sigh.
Topic of discussion at the dinner table tonight; my wife went on quite the little rant about all these "emotional people making stupid statements about banning tools instead of crime."
I mentioned that when a woman speaks out pro-gun, it comes across a hundred times more powerful as when a man does so.
(Which is a fair assessment, I feel. Men are often looked at as chest-thumping-gorillas when they talk about guns and stuff, women, not so much.)
I mentioned that when a woman speaks out pro-gun, it comes across a hundred times more powerful as when a man does so.
(Which is a fair assessment, I feel. Men are often looked at as chest-thumping-gorillas when they talk about guns and stuff, women, not so much.)
PaisteMage
Member
My girlfriend knows that if she wants to learn fine, I don't force it on her.
I bring it up when i am mulling over a purchasing decision, how the cost of ammo (and therefore not shooting much lately) has me wanting to get a press.
She always jokes the guns sit there and don't get shot that much.
I tell her they aren't all .22!
I just think she would like it since she was good in archery. The target aquisition thing and all...
Good point Trent about how if a woman speaks out about guns, it takes the aggressive , testosterone fueled, image out of it.
I bring it up when i am mulling over a purchasing decision, how the cost of ammo (and therefore not shooting much lately) has me wanting to get a press.
She always jokes the guns sit there and don't get shot that much.
I tell her they aren't all .22!
I just think she would like it since she was good in archery. The target aquisition thing and all...
Good point Trent about how if a woman speaks out about guns, it takes the aggressive , testosterone fueled, image out of it.
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