How scarce was ammo during the 94 ban?

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Oh man I miss those South African 200 round battle packs of 7.62!!!!
I miss those, too. Fortunately, I was cleaning a section of my basement and found five battle packs that I forgot I had. IIRC, I paid $29 each for them from Aim Surplus around 2004. I also "found" 200 rounds of linked 7.62x51, 500 rounds of new Winchester 308, and a 1000-round case of Wolf 7.62x39 that I think I paid $90 for at a gun show in Charlotte, NC in 2006. Now, I think I need to start cleaning some other sections of my basement. :D
 
I didn't see an ammunition shortage during it and purchased thousands and thousands of rounds brought to my door by UPS.

I pulled one of the Aim SA battlepacks out from under my bench today.
 
Ammo was never much an issue back then--but, in some fairness, DoD was not buying 1500 million rounds a year, either; DHS did not then exist, with their purchases furhter depleting production, too.
AND, Clinton's Executive Order halting all imports of Chinese Small Arms & Ammo hadn't gone into effect yet. Ammo prices were as good as I've ever seen, probably better than I'll ever see again, even corrected for inflation.

You could get U.S. new commercial 9mm ammo in small quantities (i.e. a box or two--50 to 100 round quantities) for under 10 cents a round without shopping around that carefully, and buying in bulk, you could do better. 7.62x39mm was cheaper than that, and 7.62x25mm pistol ammo was down around 5 cents a round in bulk.

If that executive order is ever rescinded, the prices will drop like a stone when Norinco starts hitting the market again.
 
AND, Clinton's Executive Order halting all imports of Chinese Small Arms & Ammo hadn't gone into effect yet. Ammo prices were as good as I've ever seen, probably better than I'll ever see again, even corrected for inflation.

You could get U.S. new commercial 9mm ammo in small quantities (i.e. a box or two--50 to 100 round quantities) for under 10 cents a round without shopping around that carefully, and buying in bulk, you could do better. 7.62x39mm was cheaper than that, and 7.62x25mm pistol ammo was down around 5 cents a round in bulk.

If that executive order is ever rescinded, the prices will drop like a stone when Norinco starts hitting the market again.

Why would you assume that?

Throughout the 90's and early 2000's we had many ex-Warsaw Pact countries joining NATO and standardizing ammunition.

It's no coincidence that Bulgaria, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, and now parts of the old Yugoslavia are all the primary sources of our surplus. We had, for 20 years, almost a constant supply of parts kits, "obsolete" ammunition, and so on getting sold off and bought by voracious hoarders in the US :) as those countries standardized and adopted NATO doctrine.

We also saw surplus old stock entering the country from Malaysia, India, and other eastern countries.

There's plenty of competition for ammunition from various sources; ranging from parts of the old old Soviet Union (Wolf, Brown/Silver Bear, Tula, etc), Czech Republic (Privi Partizan), Switzerland/Germany (Ruag), FN Herstal, and so on.

Plus dozens of commercial manufacturers right here in the United States.

There's no shortage of ammunition suppliers.

There's no shortage of metals. And metal prices aren't much different than they were 10 or 15 years ago.

So ... why is ammunition 3x as expensive as it used to be, and rising?
 
There's no shortage of metals. And metal prices aren't much different than they were 10 or 15 years ago.

The two main components of brass is Copper and Zinc.

Copper is about 4x what it was in the 94-99 time frame
Zinc is about 2x what it was in the 94-99 time frame

Lead is about 5x what it was in the 94-99 time frame
 
My friends in Canada are still getting Norinco ammo and it has increased in price.
7.62X51 that was selling for 10 cents a round down here is running about 50 cents a round up there currently.
Based on current pricing, that would make the stuff about 40 cents a round at current market now.
 
A loaf of bread was around 50 cents and a gallon of milk about a dollar. Inflation has just about done us in folks and don't look for it to get any better in the short run, maybe down the road, who knows?
 
one thing I want to know is why in the world is .22 being bought up so much! I know of a little girl that got a .22 for Christmas and the only way she got to shoot it was because I gave her a 50 round box of Federal. I can't find a single box of .22 LR in my area!
+1
Shooting and weapons went from fun and relatively cheap to just not very fun. I try and buy/reload more than I shoot but having to monitor my round count is just disturbing.
 
I miss those, too. Fortunately, I was cleaning a section of my basement and found five battle packs that I forgot I had. IIRC, I paid $29 each for them from Aim Surplus around 2004. I also "found" 200 rounds of linked 7.62x51, 500 rounds of new Winchester 308, and a 1000-round case of Wolf 7.62x39 that I think I paid $90 for at a gun show in Charlotte, NC in 2006. Now, I think I need to start cleaning some other sections of my basement. :D
To be fair SA was in 140 round BP's not 200.
 
I was poking around a few country hardware stores this weekend and found plenty of 223 and 22 lr, looked like it had been on the shelves for 20 years though...

Makes me wonder if some of the shortage is being created by retailers holding back supplies? I know that the Cabela's here in Hartford CT removed all of their Black rifles from the sales floor and are not selling them right now...
 
It's no coincidence that Bulgaria, Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, and now parts of the old Yugoslavia are all the primary sources of our surplus.
The Chinese ammo coming in wasn't surplus, it was primarily new commercial and competed directly with U.S. commercial makers, not merely on the surplus market.
My friends in Canada are still getting Norinco ammo and it has increased in price.
Sure, metals have gone up, and that's going to drive ammo prices up too. But metal prices alone won't account for the price increases we've seen over the years since the import ban went into effect. Nor will inflation.
Plus dozens of commercial manufacturers right here in the United States.

There's no shortage of ammunition suppliers.
There clearly is, or we wouldn't be seeing repeated and extended shortages of ammunition.
 
the Chinese ammo coming in wasn't surplus
Yes it was, I still have some of it.
The .308 my Canadian friends are buying is actually surplus, dated 1990, that has been packaged for commercial sale.

Case in point. This is surplus Military 918 Makarov.
Stuff on the left is Russian, center is Czech Military commercial repackage and on right is Chinese Military issue.
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Yes it was, I still have some of it.
The .308 my Canadian friends are buying is actually surplus, dated 1990, that has been packaged for commercial sale.
Some was, however, as I said in my post, "it was primarily new commercial and competed directly with U.S. commercial makers".
The .308 my Canadian friends are buying is actually surplus, dated 1990, that has been packaged for commercial sale.
If it is truly surplus, that means it is left over from ammunition made for China for use by their own military.

Which begs the question--what .308 caliber weapons was the Chinese military using in 1990?

What .308 caliber weapons did China EVER issue to their military?
 
The chinese stuff that came in then was, by a vast majority, commercial. It was labeled "Norinco Sport" and came in green and white boxes. I've still got a few of those and some of the German surplus that came in the white boxes, exported after the reunification.
 
Ammo might be in short supply. A lot of the stuff coming into the US during the 1990's years was left over stocks from when the Iron Curtain fell. I think it very likely the importation of foreign made arms and ammunition could be effected by a ban. Probably as an afterthought or as a "protection for US manufacturers". Which would put big ammo producers on the same side as the government. "Don't do away with guns!...but do stop foreign made ammo from coming in, we'll provide all the US needs domestically." Bigger profits for them.
 
JohnKSa, China doesn't just produce Military ammunition for its own Military, they produce for export all over the world.
China never produced "Commercial" ammunition prior to the opening of the American market, all the stuff they made went to Military or paramilitary buyers.
Whatever kind of commercial box they chose to repackage the ammunition in doesn't change the fact it was initially produced for military sales.

The cases of 7.62X51 ammunition I have are packaged as two 720 loose rounds in paper bundles in sealed tins in a wooden cases.
By the way, regardless of what the commercial boxes say, i.e. ",308 Winchester", the ammunition is dimensioned to military 7.62X51 standard it is NOT commercial .308 sporting ammunition.

They began repackaging the ammunition in 20 round commercial boxes at the request of importers, still doesn't change the fact the ammunition was initially produced for Military sales.
 
There was way more ammo around.The surplus ammo has disappeared.All there is is 7.62x54R,5.45x39 and 7.62 Tok.
Back in the day there was tons of surplus 9x18
9x19
.45ACP
Port .308
556 from 1/2 dozen countries.
7.62x39 from 1/2 dozen countries.
All kinds of stuff.From allover the world.
All of that has dissapeared.
This why prices have climbed.
Not enough flexability in supply.
 
China doesn't just produce Military ammunition for its own Military, they produce for export all over the world.
Ok, strictly speaking, then, what you're talking about is contract overruns, or perhaps even runs made specifically for commercial sale after military contracts were fulfilled. That's not actual military surplus ammunition. The purchasing country might sell some of their ammo as military surplus, eventually, but that's not quite the same thing as the original maker selling new ammunition (whatever spec it's made to conform to) on the commercial market.

However, that's still not evidence that all the Chinese ammo on the U.S. market during the AWB was military surplus.
By the way, regardless of what the commercial boxes say, i.e. ",308 Winchester", the ammunition is dimensioned to military 7.62X51 standard it is NOT commercial .308 sporting ammunition.
If it's made for the commercial market, it's commercial ammunition whether or not it is made to conform to military standards.
China never produced "Commercial" ammunition prior to the opening of the American market...
Ok, but the question and discussion is specifically about the AWB timeframe. That was significantly after the American market opened to Chinese products.
 
Back then, a Colt Cobra was $350 new
A Colt Anaconda $550 new
A Winchester 30-30 $300 or less new
A Ruger Mini 14 $350 to $400 new
Beretta m92 $450 new
Marlin 60 $100 new
Romanian AK SAR 1 $300 new
French MAS new in wrap $100
Glock $350 to $400 new
Ruger Blackhawk $250 to $300 new
Ruger MK2 $200 new
S&W 686 .357 $350 new

And if you want to go back to 1988 lol.. Norinco AK $300 new, H&K 91 $750 new, Colt 1911a1 series 80 $475 new

Dont forget 60 dollar SKS's




94 was pre-internet sales.

Yep back then it was only locals buying or mail order.. Now someone from the other side of the US can clean your local store out in a click in his/her PJ's.

different landscape entirely.
 
Back then I was an avid reloader and only bought ammo if it was near as cheap as I could reload...and there was a lot of military rifle caliber that met that criteria.

When I got too busy to reload I got in the habit of keeping a minumum of 500 or so rds of stuff I don't shoot much and 1-2,000 rds of stuff I do plus about 3-5,000 of .22 which I shoot every time I go to the range to "warm up". I can "weather" this shortage for quite a while before dusting off my progessive reloader...
 
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