Feeling on 3d printable rifles and mags?

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ryno31

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Hi all. I remember hearing about this technology about a year ago and ran across this thread today. Basically if you have a 3d printer you can download files which I believe are free of charge and print your own rifle or accessories. I read about people doing this lately to print mags because they've become so expensive and hard to find. I know that you can't print every part needed to assemble a rifle such as springs, firing pin, barrel...etc as those can't function well being made out plastic but I suppose you could print your own piece of crap rifle and mag frames if you had the internals.

Personally, I don't think this is a good idea. I think in the long run it could really jeopardize the legitimacy of legal gun owners owning guns who have gone through the correct channels to do so. I'm no fan of gun control, especially in the forms that are currently being proposed but I do think there are certain people who shouldn't own guns, namely violent felons who have used a gun in the commission of a past crime and those who have been proven without a doubt to be mentally ill AND dangerous to society. I think if this technology takes off and is able to do everything that its claiming to be able to do that tech saavy kids, gang bangers, drug dealers, mentally ill, and those who are crazed enough to want to engage in mass shootings of the like we've seen lately will have access to technology that enables them to construct a cheap throw away weapon just reliable enough to fulfill whatever their objective might be.

What could the unintended consequences be? The govt can't outlaw the plastic used to print these weapons so then would they start regulating the sale of internal parts? I know I'm kind of pushing the envelope on this but I'm just trying to wrap my mind around this. I just think its a really bad idea and this is coming from someone who is very pro gun. Here is a youtube link talking about this technology. There are probably better links out there if you wanna do the research yourself. How do you all feel about this?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YqzJlBcCsow&feature=related
 
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Do you really think that drug dealers and gangbangers are going to shell out the money for a 3D printer just to print a gun that lasts for MAYBE a dozen shots?

Not to mention they'll have to learn the software to do so.
 
It's not very practical, but freedom means it doesn't matter. I don't like the idea of someone telling others what they can do or not. But you do have point. The newspapers said today that background checks are not very effective In stopping those same people from getting guns now.
 
Phish, I think they're getting better and better. Personally, I think that this technology proves just how easy it will be to get access to a weapon if you want one, which means the only way to keep guns (and knives, bats, etc.) out of the hands of criminals is to keep criminals separated from society. If only there were some facility designed to do this. I call my new invention "prison".
 
You still can't print the receiver, which is the actual part of the firearm that is legally a firearm. Until they can start layering metal in those printers, have fun with your magazines!

printable-ar-15-mag-02-600x400.jpg
 
3d printers really aren't that expensive especially for a successful drug dealer and I'm thinking that it could lead to a new black market of throw away guns. The files for the guns are easily accessible, it just seems way too easy and dangerous for me. I'm all for people's rights and liberties which is why my skin crawls and I'm outraged at what has been happening to this country for the last 10 years. I think this technology is exciting and holds alot of promise for many things but when it's applied to guns I think it becomes a slippery slope. Who knows though that's why I'm so interested in getting opinions. Thanks for the feed back so far.
 
I don't see the big deal, there isn't anything wrong with making your own "title 1" firearm right now, 3d printing is just a new tool to be used in that process.

We don't have a problem with gangbangers and criminals buying machine shops and making their own weapons now, they just steal them, buy them on the black market, or get them from the BATFE - all much simpler than making guns from scratch.

3d printing (aka rapid prototyping) is a fantastic tool for some applications, and simple firearms are just that, simple. Anything that serves as a stark reminder that firearms technology is a wide-open can of worms is a good thing. Welcome to the future, where the government can't just clamp down on one source of weaponry to disarm the citizenry.
 
Do you really think that drug dealers and gangbangers are going to shell out the money for a 3D printer just to print a gun that lasts for MAYBE a dozen shots?
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. It's much cheaper and easier just to buy a gun. I have extensive personal experience with using a 3D printer, and while not rocket science, they are not particularly easy to use either. Most 3D printers are quite exspensive, not to mention the media that they must use. To date, I believe AR lower receivers are about the only significant gun parts that have been sucessfully manufactured using this process, and even those weren't very durable.

It's really a moot point, since most criminals just use stolen (or illegally-acquired) guns anyway (which is exactly why gun control will never work).
 
Ryno, so would you say we should let these criminal types have baseball bats? How about 2x4s? What about kitchen knives? It doesn't matter if they have these tools, a stolen firearm, a legally-purchased firearm, or a homemade firearm...they are all just tools until used to commit a crime. If someone is willing to commit a crime, they should be charged the same no matter what tool was used, and the response on the tool should simply be that it is evidence.
 
It's always been legal to manufacture personal use firearms. Yes as technology advances, manufacturing becomes easier. A 3d printer is less capable and more expensive than an endmill when it comes to manufacturing firearms. Are civilian owned machining tools a bad idea? Ban metal?
 
All you need are some basic tools and you can make a Sten gun! In fact, if I were going to make a gun...something other than some sort of single shot...it would make a Sten. Cut a couple of holes in a pipe, stamp a couple of other parts, make a barrel, and bingo gun. You don't need a 3-D printer and you never did. The hardest part would be making a rifled barrel (if you bothered) and making a magazine that fed reliably.

I think folks will not bother 3-D printing AR lowers and just go straight to Sten guns...or US M3 types of things.
 
I guess I didn't realize how labor intensive it actually was. I was under the impression that if you had access to a 3d printer and some basic internals you could sit on your butt and construct a gun but the more I think about I see how unrealistic it is. You would need to machine some vital metal parts and a barrel would be out of the question for 99% of people who would need a throw away gun for illegal purposes. Found this link on youtube showing what looks like a printed receiver making it 6 shots before it breaks.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FLlJshR6nvg
 
It is just as easy to stamp out Liberator style pistols, or build a zip gun or the above mentioned STEN.

But buying them or stealing them apparently is easier. Otherwise, gang bangers would be running around with home built fire arms.
 
People have been doing this plenty already, before 3d printers.
They are called milling machines.
There is manual and there is CNC versions. There is expensive and there is smaller hobby versions that are less expensive. They can be made for even less.
These do in fact allow making metal receivers, and guns. Legal guns, illegal machineguns, whatever the user chooses.


3d printing is just a bit cheaper, and had better media coverage.


Some of the 3d printers intended to be affordable to hobby consumers are not that far below the price of some manual milling machines with good enough tolerances to mill out plenty of guns.




I think progression of such technology will result in attempts to regulate that technology and its possession, which will be impractical.
Additional coverage may increase how many try to obtain such technology for use in making things.
When the consumer is able to make firearms readily the ability to restrict guns from those that don't choose to follow whatever rules or registration is put in place will show how 'gun control' fails at controlling who has what firearms.
Currently controlling who gets firearms relies on the cooperation of a small number of manufacturers with business licenses and FFLs that do everything the government asks them to do.
Yet the antis still consider them the bad guys.
When the consumers can make fully functional guns at home, and diagrams and instructions and the machinery to do so is readily available, there will be a higher percentage that don't care what the government wants them to do.
At that point such regulation of what firearms enter the population will be very difficult.
That in turn will make trying to control who can obtain firearms or certain types of firearms seem like a lost cause.
 
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quatin said:
You still can't print the receiver, which is the actual part of the firearm that is legally a firearm. Until they can start layering metal in those printers, have fun with your magazines!

printable-ar-15-mag-02-600x400.jpg
Click to expand...
Umm, yeah you can.

They've done it already and it's legal now since you can manufacture a firearm for personal use.

ar15lowertests.jpg
 
I think this is a wonderful invention. Just another example of why the market always triumphs over governmental prohibition, and always will. I would look for this technology to become a big deal in coming years... not just for guns, either (though that's the application I'm most excited about)! As it becomes more widespread, costs will come down. Here in a decade or two I bet most homes will have a 3D printer on the desk.

This will be a good option for those in oppressed lands who are denied their right to bear arms even more than we are.
 
I saw a video on FB about those printed magazines - appeared to work just fine. Still have to have a metal spring, of course, but that wouldn't be too hard to come by, I wouldn't think.
 
I think in the long run it could really jeopardize the legitimacy of legal gun owners owning guns who have gone through the correct channels to do so.
Click to expand...

FYI, it's perfectly legal to make your own guns, and perfectly llegal for prohibited persons to do so already. Whether tech makes this prospect easier than it used to be is none of the govts business, and honestly, there is nothing they can ultimately do about it, anyway. Last thing we want is them regulating printers ;)

As far as the claims that crooks will just steal guns:
Crooks are after what's easy. Guns are plentiful now, hence stealing them is preferred. But remember that the Russians have been getting chewed up by homebrew Chechen guns for decades, and that silencers built in machine shops were making shootings in Baghdad more difficult to pinpoint a few years ago. Do a google search on "homemade weapons" and see how many come out of repressive states that ban their possession. If we make guns expensive/rare, and crooks still need them, they will find a way.

And for the claims that this tech is a dead end:
Properly configured SLA prototyping is already as strong as injection-molded plastic, and requires no finishing. Complete, functional assemblies can be formed as a unit. Properly designed to material limitations, and then reinforced in areas like the barrel and bolt face, a low power gun is already attainable (nobody's had the guts/initiative to put the plans up with a test-fire video on the 'net yet).

Instead of dreading how this awesome technology could possibly be misused, and using this as an excuse to limit its implementation, imagine the wealth of benefits. Print your own gripis, buttstock, replacement frame, magazines, scope covers, contoured vise jaws, game pieces, silverware, inventions, toys for the kids, etc.

TCB
 
... it just seems way too easy and dangerous for me. I'm all for people's rights and liberties ...
Click to expand...

We alter the arrangement of those two thoughts and we have the real statement being made:

"I'm all for people's rights and liberties ... it just seems way too easy and dangerous for me."

Freedom tends to come with risks. And that's JUST FINE.
 
Zip guns typically do not look like a fire arm, and tend to have smooth bores.

Calling this a Zip gun is like calling any polymer lower a zip gun.

FWIW, a quick google image search yields this as a zip gun:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREByRHHjVHxDnfjsdJ6XUxoDAPKe0L4kfGeZF0yvgOZX7kBaJzSA.jpg

I'm not seeing the resemblance.
 
Evil 3d printers!

This is the same fear mucking that had people believing a Glock was invisible to X-ray machine and metal detectors...

That said I could see how one could use a 3D printer to create a mold for a casting. Stil,l a heck of a lot of work and trouble to get a "weapon"/
 
I'm all for the 3D printing technology. I also think it's pretty funny how technology outpaces legislation. A couple weeks ago I heard somebody say they would find a way to ban standard capacity magazines so nobody could have access to such dangerous things. Today I just read that you can make the things at home if you have a bit of cash to spare and time to learn the program. I think we can now officially say that a magazine ban would be useless.
 
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