"Universal Background Checks":Code for Universal Gun Registration

For years now I have been trying to explain to self delusional gun owners who want to keep politics out of any discussion of the 2nd Amendment that the 2nd Amendment was written by politicians and can be changed by them. The Media and Politicians have been waging a war of attrition for decades now and have made no secret that their ultimate goal in a turn in of all weapons.

We need to be writing or calling our politicians and letting them know where we stand on these proposed measures. When the NRA went to their meeting with Joe Biden, they were prepared to discuss Security in Schools, Mental Health Issue relating to firearms purchases and real prosecution of gun crimes, or actual enforcement of all those existing gun control laws. Mr Biden wasn't interested.

SC_Slowhand said:

We need to be writing or calling our politicians and letting them know where we stand on these proposed measures. When the NRA went to their meeting with Joe Biden, they were prepared to discuss Security in Schools, Mental Health Issue relating to firearms purchases and real prosecution of gun crimes, or actual enforcement of all those existing gun control laws. Mr Biden wasn't interested.

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Why, in a state that one of the most restrictive laws on gun ownership, laws much like Obama wants to extend to the rest of the US, when a Domestic (mental) health issue leads to a shooting

Are we looking to extend their FAILED laws
instead of bothering to look at what caused it.

You are jumping to a conclusion here. That may be what the "left" is "really" proposing, but it doesn't necessarily have to end up that way, after input from the opposing side. Your original scenario is just as plausible:

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The anti-gun Taliban doesn't want "input from the opposing side".

They want complete and absolute submission.

Anybody who claims anything to the contrary is naive or dishonest.

All - this is only round 1 that will be enacted by Executive Order. Who cares about UBC's - there is no way to either administer or enforce it except at shops and shows.

Round 2 will be Congressional. Do we honestly think that anything meaningful to their cause will be enacted by Congress? The '84 "ban" was a paper tiger, and Congress can't tie its shoes let alone pass anything worthwhile to deal with legitimate issues of any topic.

Relax, reload, hunt, plink and shoot the bad guys. And I humbly request that we PLEASE STOP paying $1+/round for .223 fmj (I paid $.70 for bulk last week so am guilty as well) and $2500 for ARs. While I truly love capitalism and believe the market dictates what something is worth, fear and paranoia are never suitable motivations.

+1 Deanimator. It's smoke & mirrors: Biden made a nice little show of inviting RKBA supporters to the White House to say "see? we included them" and now we're going to do what we want regardless of opposing views.

We need to stop bitching about UBCs - if you have something to hide you're a threat and I personally don't want you armed. We will never maintain legitimacy by fringing our RKBA positions - the only thing that separates us from the morons is our ability to compromise. Give them UBCs and let's be done with it. Congress is clearly useless so whatever EO is issued by the White House is window dressing. Go ahead and ban 30-round mags, the real gun enthusiasts amongst us already have 5 of them and everyone else is paying $50-100 to snap up the remaining inventory. Ergo, the market is now flooded with ARs, mags, etc. so their tactics are having the opposite effect.

Having said that, dead babies are a powerful motivator - I have two kids close to the age of those who were slaughtered by that maniac and shed tears with my wife (you can't help but think of your kids when you see something like that). I taught my kids to shoot bows first, then BBs, then airsoft and now .22s. Next is .223, the 6.8mm and finally my .270.

A gun is a tool, not a novelty - my kids know what they sound like and know what to do when they hear them: take cover and reload.

I humbly suggest we do the same.

Are you OK with UBCs if they allow POTUS and DOJ to create a national registration of all firearms so they can monitor UBCs with some degree of effectivenenss?

abajaj11 - my answer is a resounding NO, but they already have that - perhaps just not specifically within POTUS or DOJ. Every time you fill out the form you write in your address and the seller calls (in my state the FDLE) and runs an FBI check. Do we honestly believe that the BATF and the FBI don't already know where we live and what we own? The only thing they don't have is private sales, but I tend to keep what I buy so I'm not optimistic about the reality of the situation.

abajaj11 - after rereading my reply I guess the proper answer the your question is "yes" because I believe it already exists and, unless we subscribe to the fear mongers, I do not believe they'll be kicking in doors to take my ARs and Pmags.

jxbjr said:

abajaj11 - my answer is a resounding NO, but they already have that - perhaps just not specifically within POTUS or DOJ. Every time you fill out the form you write in your address and the seller calls (in my state the FDLE) and runs an FBI check. Do we honestly believe that the BATF and the FBI don't already know where we live and what we own? The only thing they don't have is private sales, but I tend to keep what I buy so I'm not optimistic about the reality of the situation.

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Let's say you buy a gun through an FFL. FFL keeps a paper copy of your 4473 for 20 years. Paper copy is not given to DOJ. BATFE can come in and request a copy under exceptional circumstances usually involving a federal crime or some national security deal i think. NICs checks are never stored.

So as of now, Feds cannot keep a database of sales through FFls, that info only resides with the FFL. There is a paper trail in the form of the 4473 copy, but only stored with the FFL for 20 years. If the Feds were secretly keeping copies that would be HIGHLY illegal and grounds for very very long jail sentences for the FEd officers involved.

Now, let's say you live in a free state and can sell your firearms Face to face . So you do that, and now there is no record of who owns the firearm. You can sell ALL your firearms face to face and now there is not even a paper trail of those firearms.

THis is the situation today. And it is good because a potentially tyrannical government (the federal govt) has no business tracking who owns what. 2A was created to protect the states and their residents from a potential central tyrannical power with a standing army, aka in today's lingo: the Federal government!
Not to protect the federal government in any way.
2A transfers NO powers on the federal government to monitor or track any gun sales. That would be like the fox guarding the hen house.

Now let's suppose UBC is passed by COngress. we can argue it is unconstitutional, and there is a slim chance current Supreme court will hold it unconstitutional but likely not.
I can guarantee you current POTUs and DOJ need one small bone from Congress and they will take it and run...they will take any new gun control measure from Congress to be a license to create all sorts of databases by executive order.
In my humble opinion, if UBC is passed, we have 3 months before national registration occurs and 2-3 years before we are effectively disarmed.
So it's not the UBC I am concerned about at all, it's what will happen after....

Roger that brother - you lay out an interesting scenario but I don't have a crystal ball so it's hard to tell what happens after. I don't trust the morons who currently "govern" our beloved Republic and have already seen them simply ignore laws to achieve political intent (re: commercial bankruptcy laws during our recent economic crisis).

Agreed on your "bone" logic. That sounds like the most likely outcome: see? we did this and that makes us right! It's too bad that they don't understand that logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end (thank you Spock).

I truly believe we have numbers, history, logic and the the Constitution on our side, and even more strongly believe that the Bill of Rights does not carry a multiple choice option. I will respect everyone's privilege (not "right") to exercise the 1st Amendment, as long as they respect mine to exercise the 2nd.

jxbjr said:

Give them UBCs and let's be done with it.

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Do you know what you are ready to accept? The current UBC bill in Congress does not just apply to sales, but to all transfers, including "a temporary transfer of possession without transfer of title." The bill has exceptions for temporary possession at certain shooting ranges and competitions, but do you want to sign up for a background check to be able to hand a buddy one of your guns to shoot on your own property (not included in the exceptions in the bill)?

gc70 - no, would never accept that. In fact, I don't think that would be part of anything that actually passes. That is likely a bargaining chip and, even if it passed, how the hell would it be enforced? You're welcome to come to my hunting camp any time - we'll shoot down the drones together.

Shadow 7D said:

Technically
there is a provision in the brady bill which is supposed to PREVENT them from compiling a database...

just like Trace Records are NOT supposed to be a database....

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A private gentleman seller over at m4carbine.net, was just contacted by ATF, they had every transaction he had ever made listed in the letter they sent him, along with a warning.

They have been violating that law from day one, these are the same people that committed atrocities at "Wako, and Ruby Ridge!" These are the people that at least 50% of the gun owning public is content with surrendering their liberties too.

Wolfman131 said:

A private gentleman seller over at m4carbine.net, was just contacted by "", they had every transaction he had ever made listed in the letter they sent him, along with a warning.

They have been violating that law from day one, these are the same people that committed atrocities at "" These are the people that at least 50% of the gun owning public is content with surrendering their liberties too.

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They have all of his sales…and likely now your post as well (those two places/events you named are likely key terms in a wide search net). Don't disagree with your intent, but sedition is a broad brush stroke. None of us are willingly surrendering anything, but enemies foreign and domestic are a threat to both us and the very republic we claim to defend. Plus…spelling and proper diction aide credibility.

You have to space out thewords Ru b y Rid ge. Make sure you have your tinfoil hat on to. seriously though i think we would be amazed at how much bi g Brot her knows about us.

hogshead - love the tinfoil hat comment!

abajaj11 said:

Let's say you buy a gun through an FFL. FFL keeps a paper copy of your 4473 for 20 years. Paper copy is not given to DOJ. BATFE can come in and request a copy under exceptional circumstances usually involving a federal crime or some national security deal i think.

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What happens if the FFL goes out of business? I think they have to turn in their 4473's. Supposedly they are "just stored", but I don't believe that.

I don't have one gun I've bought from a FFL that has survived 20 years (all are out of business except for 2, but the gun purchases still have 10 years to go before they can be tossed).

One FFL said he was "going to have a fire" when he went out of business. I hope he did, as I bought at least 4 guns there.

jxbjr said:

They have all of his sales…and likely now your post as well (those two places/events you named are likely key terms in a wide search net). Don't disagree with your intent, but sedition is a broad brush stroke. None of us are willingly surrendering anything, but enemies foreign and domestic are a threat to both us and the very republic we claim to defend. Plus…spelling and proper diction aide credibility.

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Do you understand, your post is incoherent? Also, "ahh" grammar correction is the last refuge of the leftist gun grabber.

You have to space out thewords Ru b y Rid ge. Make sure you have your tinfoil hat on to. seriously though i think we would be amazed at how much bi g Brot her knows about us.

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Quoted for the moderator, ad hominem personal attack

Yes, the true danger about the Universal Background Checks, i.e. "Closing the gun show loophole" means that ANY transfer of ANY firearms, regardless of manufacture, would have to go through an FFL. And when they catch someone with a questionable weapon, the person will say "I TOTALLY bought that from a buddy/guy at a gun show/a want ad online, BEFORE the UBC was in effect." SO the only way to eliminate that excuse, is to order that all firearms be registered, so that they know WHO was in possession of WHAT, WHEN the law goes into effect. Any firearms discovered in anyone's possession after that time, would be illegal, and probably be a felony, because they'd have to charge the crime for not registering, the same as an illegal transfer in the first place, or everyone who is caught with "illegal transfers" will use that excuse. And if you don't register, you'll forever have to worry about your firearms being discovered. You certainly won't be using and enjoying them, at least not like you do now. And for those who DO register, well, registration ALWAYS leads to confiscation. Look at the way SKS owners were treated in California...law-abiding owners registered them, under a "grace period", then later, at the whim of a bureaucrat, they all got letters telling to turn them in, or else. Once everything is registered, it's a race to see what will be banned next. "Concealable Handguns in deadly calibers, like .45 and 9mm..the same rounds our MILITARY uses"..Ultra-destructive pump-action shotguns, that "Shoot out more 'bullets' in 5 shots, than a 30-round magazine in an AR15, in LESS time!" The gun-grabbing media speaks of AR15's as "High-powered" rifles as it is now...wait till they compare how much MORE killing power your bolt action-"SNIPER Rifle" has, in .308 or .30-.30. And so goes our rights to defend ourselves.

I think this thread has gone too far downhill. A moderator who isn't about to go to bed may see fit to clean it up later.

For the record, if you report a post, you don't have to quote it again for us to see it. Also, if you are reporting an ad hominem personal attack, you may want to refrain from making one in the same thread.

Likewise, if one is going to bag on another's spelling, avoid using "aide" instead of "aid" in the critique. Glass houses, as they say.