Javelin377
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- Jun 18, 2012
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- 7
When you fill out a 4473 to purchase a, let's just say, a 10/22; how long does that information stay out there? Meaning how long does XXX agency know that you own said firearm?
Background check question
- Thread starter Javelin377
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Midnight Oil
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- Dec 27, 2012
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- 88
i may be wrong about this, but it's just the place where you purchased the 10/22 from that retains the record for what you bought. the store calls in with your information of the 4473 and just finds out if your background checks out.
45_auto
Member
The dealer is required to hold onto the 4473 for 20 years, then they can be destroyed. If the dealer goes out of business, the 4473's are turned over to the ATF.
Your NICS info that was sent in for the background check is supposed to be destroyed within 90 days.
I would be very surprised if there were not backup copies of files out there much older than 90 days that have not been destroyed.
Your NICS info that was sent in for the background check is supposed to be destroyed within 90 days.
I would be very surprised if there were not backup copies of files out there much older than 90 days that have not been destroyed.
dogtown tom
Member
Federal law requires the FBI NICS to delete NICS transaction information at the close of their business day....not after ninety days. The exceptions are DELAYED transactions that will be deleted after the status changes to PROCEED. DENIED transactions are kept permanently.
You got a source for this conspiracy theory?
Dr. Sandman
Member
Not a source, but how are they able to "trace the gun back to such and such store and find out who the owner is" when guns are used in crimes. I totally believe that they keep the information.
morcey2
Member
They usually get that from the other direction. They go to the mfg with the serial number and see who the retailer was.
dogtown tom
Member
You are confusing an FBI NICS background check with a wholly different animal.
In a NICS check the dealer only gives the following information to the FBI:
Name
Place of Birth
Height
Weight
Gender
Birthdate
Social Security Number (optional)
Ethnicity
Race
State of Residency
Country of Citizenship
Type of Firearm (handgun, long gun, other firearm)
Note that the manufacturer, model, caliber and serial number are NOT given to the FBI. The FBI doesn't know if you are buying a pistol or revolver if "Handgun" nor would they be told if you are getting an Evil Black Rifle with high capacity magazine clips.....or a .410 shotgun if its a "Long Gun".
so the idea that the FBI NICS knows what you are getting is pretty damn funny.
When a firearm is recovered at a crime scene, the local PD will submit the firearm manufacturer, model, serial# and caliber to the ATF National Tracing Center. The NTC will then contact as many licensees (manufacturer>distributor>dealer) as needed until they reach the first transfer to a NONlicensee...the retail customer (who filled out the 4473). Your local dealer will then research his records to find that firearm (he has 24hours to do so) and then faxes the 4473 to the NTC.
If that first retail customer no longer has the gun, ie. subsequently sold/traded/stolen/etc........the trace most likely ends.
"You got a source for this conspiracy theory?"
No.... you got any proof that they ARE destroyed?
"so the idea that the FBI NICS knows what you are getting is pretty damn funny."
I never said they knew exactly what we were purchasing. But they do know you are trying to purchase a modern firearm.
No.... you got any proof that they ARE destroyed?
"so the idea that the FBI NICS knows what you are getting is pretty damn funny."
I never said they knew exactly what we were purchasing. But they do know you are trying to purchase a modern firearm.
dogtown tom
Member
Your theory....so YOU need to provide the proof.
BTW...in the very early days the FBI failed to erase info and Congress stomped them for it.
if you say the moon is made of cheese be prepared to be asked for proof....and its pretty doubtful you have any.
Uh, nope.
They don't know if its a 1890's Colt Single Action Army revolver or an FN FiveSeven pistol.......if you actually read anything above you would know that all the FBI NICS is told is "handgun".
erichtmobile
Member
Look up the case
National Rifle Association vs. Janet Reno
The FBI admited that they do not destroy nics records in direct violation of several federal laws
You think these govt turds follow the rules.....nope
National Rifle Association vs. Janet Reno
The FBI admited that they do not destroy nics records in direct violation of several federal laws
You think these govt turds follow the rules.....nope
Isaac-1
Member
Hmm I wonder how they limit people in border states to a maximum of 2 guns every 5 days if not through NICS.
dogtown tom
Member
There is no such law.
Where do you get such nonsense?
dogtown tom
Member
I'm not confused in the least.
Of course "they do know" your getting gun..........what the heck do you think the purpose of a 4473 and NICS is for.....buying tires?
Good grief man.
Birch Knoll
Member
Actually, they don't really "know" for sure that you've bought a gun at all. They know that a background check was performed for a prospective transfer, but sometimes the transfer doesn't happen for some reason -- the customer changes his mind, or maybe he forgot his wallet or his credit card won't authorize, or maybe the FFL decides not to go through with the sale for some reason.
Of course, most background checks do result in a transfer. But the FBI has no way of knowing which ones.
Of course, most background checks do result in a transfer. But the FBI has no way of knowing which ones.
Mauserguy
Member
I'm in California and I have a story about the California handgun registry. Some years ago I was out in the desert shooting when up rolled a BLM ranger. She called in all my guns to her office who was on the phone with the state attorney general's office. They pulled up the guns registered to me and started naming guns I don't own. I objected and she told me that there are many errors in the database. Basically, I've got guns registered to me that I never owned, and, presumably, somebody else is out there with guns that are not registered to them at all. Basically, if the government can f... it up, they will.
Mauserguy
Mauserguy
Loc n Load
Member
Tracing guns
I think there is a lot we don't know abt where our gun information goes. If you followed the story of the ex con (murderer) in NY that set the house on fire, then killed first responders. The authorities vowed to "trace that AR back to the day it was manufactured". Turns out a neighbor bought the gun in a straw purchase for the ex con. She was arrested.
I think there is a lot we don't know abt where our gun information goes. If you followed the story of the ex con (murderer) in NY that set the house on fire, then killed first responders. The authorities vowed to "trace that AR back to the day it was manufactured". Turns out a neighbor bought the gun in a straw purchase for the ex con. She was arrested.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
The point is though, that the info is not on a computer in Washington.
ATF comes in and paws through a FFL's bound books to find a specific gun they are looking to trace back.
I have a close friend who is an FFL and it has happened more then once to him.
But it's not something they normally do unless they have to find out who purchased a weapon used in a crime for some reason.
And they certainly do not make copies of every gun sale in the bound books.
rc
ATF comes in and paws through a FFL's bound books to find a specific gun they are looking to trace back.
I have a close friend who is an FFL and it has happened more then once to him.
But it's not something they normally do unless they have to find out who purchased a weapon used in a crime for some reason.
And they certainly do not make copies of every gun sale in the bound books.
rc
mgkdrgn
Member
However, there is no way to use "background information check data" to trace a gun.
why?
because there is no mention of the gun, other than to say "handgun or long gun", in the data that is used for the background check.
mgkdrgn
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