In support of a National FOID (Firearms Owner Identification Card)

whats next - a Free Speech card? how about a freedom of religion card? i dont believe God needs approval since my rights are, and shall remain, GOD GIVEN RIGHTS!

I did in fact read your post. The only states your FOID system would benefit are states that do not have shall issue or easy may issue permit systems such as NY, NJ etc. Would it be easier to have a national standard for CCW? Yes. That is why the concealed carry reciprocity bill was introduced yet stalled in the Senate last I checked. In states where concealed carry is a 20 minute process, it is a hindrance and a way to grant privilege to a right.

Screw that noise. I'm tired of having one in Illinois; no one else needs to suffer under this crap. Whoever said that it then becomes a privilege instead of a right is spot on.

How about a National Press Card, to affirm everybody's 1st Amendment rights, and to free speech? Since we'll need cards for everything. ID badge society

Or, maybe they can implant RFID chips in our brain that are programmed and updated via satellite or by radio or WIFI signals from authorized governing authorities that can be read with a scanner that notify people what rights we are allowed to have. This would be very convenient, efficient and accurate. Just think, no guess work or risk of false identification. The government would have 24/7 access to your body and if you are disqualified all a person has to do is scan you. Then it would be immediately updated to governing authorities that you are attempting to circumvent your allowed freedoms as specified on your RFID chip which contains your up to date information sourced from a highly secured 256-bit encrypted central government database .

Perhaps, the chips will eventually be equipped with a sedation releasing device that will stop a person attempting to commit any act that is not allowed via the data on their Rights RFID chip.

Technology plus universal identification plus corrupt governments is not always a good mix.

Dear Lost Sheep, I generally enjoy your wisdom and humor on gun issues, but my friend, you lost me with this one. I couldn't agree with a national FOID, we would be heading into a discussion on a national ID and the abuses associated with that as well. My vote is no.

Some people state that requiring an ID to vote is prohibitive.

How is this not the same?

So the card is shall issue. What will prevent the government from adding more conditions before issuing this license?


Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

TOTALLY AGAINST IT!
I live in Illinois and firearm owners have to have a FOID card. We have to pay to exercise our constitutional right and our corrupt state government knows who and where we are.
TOTALLY AGAINST IT!

Devil's advocate position:

If such a card were used to indicate that the holder has been through the NICS process and the applicable state process and can therefore purchase a gun in person with no additional paperwork or delay, it might have some merit. After all, every time one buys a gun now he has to get a permission slip from Uncle Sam, via NICS.

But a better solution, one that I'd support, would be to eliminate the background check by removing all who can't pass it from the streets.

Recurring theme:

If we don't trust Person A to have a gun, and we know Person A can steal one or buy one illegally, why do we allow Person A to mingle with the public?

The goal is not to reduce crime or keep guns out of the hands of criminals. The goal is to get guns out of the hands of normal law abiding citizens so the govt can steam roll over us. Any steps taken to reduce the freedom to own guns is a step towards them advancing their goal. You think the high ups in government really believe what they are saying? They know it won't reduce crime or save the children. They don't care about that. They want all the guns centralized under their control so they can use them to keep us down. All this talk about logic, reason, making sense it doesn't matter. Your rights don't matter. The 2nd amendment is some word written on a piece of paper. The only thing that gives it any substance is if the people are willing to revolt when their freedoms are taken away.

Hitler's first step in disarming his country was to require gun registration. That is not a small or unimportant fact. It should not be forgotten quickly.

CathyGo said:

Hitler's first step in disarming his country was to require gun registration. That is not a small or unimportant fact. It should not be forgotten quickly.

Click to expand...

This isn't a discussion about registering firearms. Also, source on the Hitler disarming his country?

OpelBlitz said:

This isn't a discussion about registering firearms. Also, source on the Hitler disarming his country?

Click to expand...

A national FOID would essentially be a gun registration act, think about it.

Secondly, are you serious? Asking for a source on Hitler's gun confiscation and disarmament?

In any case, do a little bit of search, won't be hard to find. Well, here, let me do it for you.

http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/registration_article/registration.html

Alaska444 said:

A national FOID would essentially be a gun registration act, think about it.

Secondly, are you serious? Asking for a source on Hitler's gun confiscation and disarmament?

In any case, do a little bit of search, won't be hard to find.

Click to expand...

It's not essentially a gun registration act -- unless in order to comply with the rules of owning a FOID card, you need to report your guns. Perhaps I missed that part of the conversation.

And not totally relevant, you'll find just as many other sources with the proper information stating what really happened in Germany. No one has good sources. Just getting tired of people spouting this without good sources. (I'm not saying it's totally false, but I don't feel the context is correct) I think this may be worth a topic if one doesn't already exist.

OpelBlitz said:

It's not essentially a gun registration act -- unless in order to comply with the rules of owning a FOID card, you need to report your guns. Perhaps I missed that part of the conversation.

And not totally relevant, you'll find just as many other sources with the proper information stating what really happened in Germany. No one has good sources. Just getting tired of people spouting this without good sources. (I'm not saying it's totally false, but I don't feel the context is correct) I think this may be worth a topic if one doesn't already exist.

Click to expand...

Once again, registering the PEOPLE who OWN guns is a "form" of gun registration especially when coupled with their Firarms Transfer Inquiry Program (FTIP). Would it be possible for the state to know all the "legal" owners of firearms in Illinois? The answer is yes, that is de facto registration.

Secondly, here is a more in depth version of the source I gave above. I will leave the liberal historical revisionism of the Nazi's gun control campaign for others to dispute.

http://www.stephenhalbrook.com/article-nazilaw.pdf

Right, that link is pretty much the source I used (Stephen Halbrook). Jews and those declared enemies of the state were disarmed, not the German people as a whole. That's the context I was referring to. Thanks for that link BTW, far more comprehensive than what I had found before. I understand this is ultimately semantics, but I didn't feel simply saying "Hitler disarmed his people" is entirely accurate.

Now with the whole FOID thing - maybe I'm just having a disconnect. You simply repeated what you said in your previous post. I do not have to register anything. Chicago residents might, I think. But the last time I lived in Chicago, I wasn't even old enough to own a gun. I mean, the whole FOID thing does identify gun owners to the state, but it says nothing about what that owner actually has in his possession. Maybe I was simply taking this statement too literally?

OpelBlitz said:

Right, that link is pretty much the source I used (Stephen Halbrook). Jews and those declared enemies of the state were disarmed, not the German people as a whole. That's the context I was referring to. Thanks for that link BTW, far more comprehensive than what I had found before. I understand this is ultimately semantics, but I didn't feel simply saying "Hitler disarmed his people" is entirely accurate.

Now with the whole FOID thing - maybe I'm just having a disconnect. You simply repeated what you said in your previous post. I do not have to register anything. Chicago residents might, I think. But the last time I lived in Chicago, I wasn't even old enough to own a gun. I mean, the whole FOID thing does identify gun owners to the state, but it says nothing about what that owner actually has in his possession. Maybe I was simply taking this statement too literally?

Click to expand...

Is it more important to register the gun or register the owner? The FOID registers the owner, the FTIP records gun sales linked to the FOID. You MUST have a FOID to access the FTIP. How is that not a "form" of gun registration? You essentially have the same information available to the state whether starting with the gun as registration to a certain person, or registering the eligible owners and tying the gun to the owner. That makes the Illinois FOID and FTIP a de facto registration process.

In many states, the state has no clue who owns guns or who doesn't. Illinois is different.

It's important to register nothing! You have no idea how much I hate being required to have this stupid thing. Also, that doesn't take private sales into account, as most of my firearms were acquired.

OpelBlitz said:

It's important to register nothing! You have no idea how much I hate being required to have this stupid thing. Also, that doesn't take private sales into account, as most of my firearms were acquired.

Click to expand...

Sorry, according to the Illinois State Police, all private sales are subject to these laws as well:

Does Illinois have a waiting period for firearm purchases and does it apply to private sales?

Yes. Illinois law requires withholding the delivery of a concealable weapon (i.e. a handgun) for at least 72 hours and a rifle, shotgun, or other long gun for at least 24 hours. This applies for gun dealers and private sales.

Click to expand...

http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

The relevance towards private sales is only that there's supposed to be a waiting period for purchases. There is no way this can be truly enforced with private sales without personally witnessing these transactions.

ETA: The point is that private purchases still aren't known to anyone but the buyer and seller.

THR has discussed the issue of private sales in Illinois on a previous thread. According to this, you must collect certain information and have it available for inspection if required by state police for a period of 10 years according to one comment.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=37138

I don't understand what new information this provides to the discussion. Are you trying to say I don't know how private transactions are performed in Illinois or something...?

OpelBlitz said:

I don't understand what new information this provides to the discussion. Are you trying to say I don't know how private transactions are performed in Illinois or something...?

Click to expand...

No problem, just stating it has been discussed on another thread for anyone that wishes to read the thread that appears to contain good information. I have no idea what your understanding is or isn't, none of my business.

I gotcha. I was trying to argue the point about how a national FOID isn't necessarily registering actual guns. I guess I was being too specific.

Benjamin Franklyn long ago penned, “Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”