LGS's that fear gouge. Would or will you go back?

Good God, stop crying about prices.

If you want it buy it!

If you don't, well then don't.

I'm tired of hearing all the crying about prices. You really didn't need that mag. so don't buy it.


But **** already.............

Yeah, the prices aren't fair at all. Someone should really step in and regulate the crap out of it to protect us, the little guy. Hey, i've got a great idea....the government should step in and mandate gun prices at "reasonable" levels. Maybe a new department or at least a bureau or something..... so we can all get our "fair share."

This line of thinking is absurd. So is any notion that your LGS will forego potential profits.

Someone posted above to exercise your right to walk away. plain and simple.

get over the prices. It's America. It's a free market. Compared to the rest of the world, it's still a beautiful thing.

Hooray, another "price gouging" thread! :banghead:

I'd like a beach house in Florida, but prices are out of my budget. Is this price gouging? Of course not. Someone else is willing/able to pay more than I am. That's the great thing about a "free" market. You can decide whether or not to pay, just as the LGS can decide what to charge. Aren't choices grand??

Lemmy....have you ever sold on an auction website?

If so, do you only list your items for a "buy it now" price set to what you believe is a fair market value? Or do you let the bidders do their thing in order to make more money on the sale?

We have every right not to buy from these sellers again.

However.

Capitalism is one of the key elements that made our country great...supply and demand cannot be argued.



Why do we demand accountability for anti-capitalistic government moves like the Solyndra prop-up, federal bailouts, and crop subsidies, then complain when market forces hurt us individually?

Somehow "bad planning" on gun buyers' part has become "price gouging" by retailers. Price gouging in modern economics involves a coercive monopoly...which does not exist in the case of guns & ammo right now.

Maybe not too popular of a response, but we either love freedom or we don't.

Private stores charging gunbroker prices just 'cause -- you can kiss my business goodbye.

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Gunbroker prices are actually a very good price signal to a store of what they should be charging, because it indicates what people are willing to pay.

All said and done - I have to say this a little tongue in cheek - then what this country has fostered on itself is nothing more than good old capitialism..... we gots the power to tax an' regulate so sheeple...... I mean people beware!

On a HIGHER note my son and I visited several LGS & pawn shops in this area yesterday. I'm happy to report prices were pretty well in line with what they were a couple months ago. I don't remember seeing anything more than MSRP in any. The only thing I did note in one shop was they were limiting ammo purchases to 2 boxes per.... quite understandable under the circumstances.

Went to my lgs on Fri. Plenty of everything, price up only modestly.

How many times do I have to say this? It's not price gouging, it's a complacency tax. People who only decided they "need" an AR or some 10+ mags after the Sandy Hook tragedy simply are paying the tax for not buying them in the years after the 2004 sunset.

If you had a Glock mag on your yard sale table and two guys walked up at exactly the same moment and wanted to buy it, which guy would you sell to? Would it be the one with $10 in his hand or the one with $60?

The market works exceptionally well for revealing the value of goods. If a magazine sold for $53 it's only because somebody thought it was worth that much. I would have no problem frequenting that store again.

Setting the price for a budget AR at $3000 has had the deleterious effect of losing a $500/yr customer for life.

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Ok, let's look at this a little closer. If he does sell that AR for $3000 then the bottom line is he got an extra $1250 profit from that one sale not counting what his profit should have been if he didn't gouge. You spend $500 a year which loosely translates to $125 a year profit a year at 25%. So, in one sale he made the equivalent of 10 years of your purchases. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Chances are you will return when it's back to normal and he has a sale on an item you need. Forgive and forget.

It's a supply and demand economy and right now demand far exceeds supply. Either buy it or walk away. I bet someone will foolishly pay the asking price. Why should he sell it to you for less? Because you're a nice guy who would run to a competitor for a hot sale in a heartbeat?

In this atmosphere when a gun store may have limited stock and no idea of when more will be available or how much replacement will cost they damn well better bump their prices if they expect to stay in business. Yes this frenzy was great business for a month or so, but now the shelves are empty, no stock available and the bills still come every week.

Business is always a balance between cost, replacement cost and market price. I respect most those folks who strike a balance between raising sell prices and limiting quantities so they can service thier customers and yet remain in business. You may not like only being able to buy one or a couple, or having to pay 2x what it cost two months ago, but thats the price for not being prepared, as another gent said, a complacency tax.

Birch Knoll said:

Got it. Again, I ask you: If you had a new-in-box, unfired M&P15 that you wanted to sell today, what price would you ask?

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The price I would ask would be determined by esoteric considerations unaccounted for in your hypothetical question.

But, for starters, assuming I bought it as an end user, rather than an FFL holder, I'd not charge anything more than I paid for it under any circumstances.

But your question is too grossly oversimplified to have a direct answer. The real answer would in part be determined by factors including the identity of the buyer, the political situation at the time, and other factors.

Like I said- I'm not a capitalist, so answers to this sort of question have to be made outside of a capitalist framework. And any answer I would give would be meaningless to a capitalist.

youngda9 said:

Lemmy....have you ever sold on an auction website?

If so, do you only list your items for a "buy it now" price set to what you believe is a fair market value? Or do you let the bidders do their thing in order to make more money on the sale?

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No. I haven't sold at an auction website. And I doubt I ever will. Auctions don't give me enough control over the transaction to suit my desires.

But, for starters, assuming I bought it as an end user, rather than an FFL holder, I'd not charge anything more than I paid for it under any circumstances.

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...snicker...

What I am explicitly saying is that the LGS has permanently lost my business.

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Maybe. Maybe. But if you stick to that you'll be one customer in 10,000+ who would actually never buy from him again because he priced an item you didn't buy from him higher than what you thought he should. I walk past items every single day that I won't buy because the money in my pocket is worth more to me than the item being offered for that cash. But unless the shop is continually pricing everything higher than I could get it for elsewhere for the same amount of effort -- I will not forgo shopping there. That would be silly. Good on 'em for making as much profit as they can. Maybe they'll be in business next year when someone else isn't. Maybe they'll expand their store and inventory with the extra cash. Maybe they'll record higher profits and be a stronger firm. That's awesome!

Maybe, when I can't find something ANYWHERE else, they'll have it. I might have to save another week or two to afford it at their price point, but if I NEED it (or WANT it) I can decide to spend the "get it now" cash. Thanks to them, I'll be able to decide that for myself.

Setting the price for a budget AR at $3000 has had the deleterious effect of losing a $500/yr customer for life. That would appear to be bad business sense.

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Eh...that's a pretty tough concept to sell, as there's very little guarantee that 1 in 10,000 customers will actually refuse to come back ever. And if you do? Well, so what? Others absolutely will and their money will keep him afloat. You and the other handful who refuse aren't keeping him alive. 50 regulars and 50,000 occasional and walk-in customers are keeping him alive. You don't sign a contract to promise to always be a customer and what makes people stop coming, or want to come back, is a complicated set of issues.

Particularly since no one is going to buy an M&P15 Sport for $3000.

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Oooooh YEAH? See here's the thing...they ARE. If he wasn't selling any at $3,000 the price wouldn't BE $3,000. That's the price at which he is SELLING guns. Not a "don't touch" price that will make them sit on the shelf collecting dust. The fact that YOU, personally, won't buy it for that price machs nict to him.

The LGS had racks of rifles and cases of handguns, and reloading components and holsters and targets and all sorts of plentifully stocked other products, and had plenty of customers for those products. He was in no danger of going out of business if he sold an AR for a reasonable markup.

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AND, since he's obviously selling AR-15 at that price ... he's in no danger of going out of business if he sells them for that (what you think is an) unreasonable markup, either!

He's not in any danger of going out of business because I refuse to shop there, either. But he's lost $500/yr, which will go to his competitors, and he's lost any referral business he used to get from me.

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Ehhh, maybe. But if he's got product in stock and others don't? You and your pals will shop there. If he's got good deals on primers or holsters or boot socks? You and your pals will shop there. Shoot, I'll give you much more credit than I believe and accept that YOU never will again. Your pals still will -- and many thousands of others still will. And they'll be back again in a year when he's got stacks of ARs still in their boxes (or used buy-backs) for $600 because the panic is over.

That's the market forces working. We've seen it before, and very recently, too. Are you going to boycott him when he's selling that Sport for $599 because he's pricing it BELOW the market? Surely that's just as unethical?

I'm not a free market capitalist. I'm not, in fact, any sort of capitalist.

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Yeah, clearly -- and so very little of this will make sense to you. Other economic models, though, require governmental controls to force those structures upon buyers and seller. Absent those controls, people revert to a simple and basic "free market" model because that's what makes the most intrinsic sense. So until we manage to establish the sort of socialist price controls that will command prices to stay "in line" regardless of supply or demand, you've got to live in the world that IS.

But I have money to spend on things, and how I spend that money is determined by factors unaccounted for by academic market theories, no matter how doggedly clung to they are.

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It doesn't really sound like it. It more sounds like you're a citizen of a free market who's decided that the items being sold are not worth the value of your money in pocket, at current prices. And that's your right. Buy, don't buy -- your choice!

But your question is too grossly oversimplified to have a direct answer. The real answer would in part be determined by factors including the identity of the buyer, the political situation at the time, and other factors.

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Oh. My. God.

My question ("how much would you ask for an M&P15 today") is too grossly oversimplified? The whole question seemed very simple when you were excoriating the dealer for asking $3k. You didn't seem to allow that there might be all sorts of factors that go into his pricing. You seemed to think that what sold for $700 last month ought to sell for not a lot more than $700 today. But now you say that the price would vary depending on the identity of the buyer (!), the political situation (isn't that what the dealer is doing?), as well as "other factors". Phase of the moon, I suppose, or maybe what you had for breakfast.

Sorry, weasel answer. You lose.

No problem paying higher prices, it is a seller's market right now. Just glad We had most we needed when all this started and it is too cold to want to shoot up the ammo we have.

I have a serious problem with one store in particular. He is situated on a major street and sees lots of drop-in traffic. They have always been known on the fringe, marketing to the "Zombie Apocalypse" crowd. Anyway, stopped in to browse and his store is full of panic buyers. He comes in from the back room wheeling a cart of 7.62x39 import ammo. Prices them $10 per box and announces that he is the only one in town with any and this is the last of it. People line up and buy him out. Funny thing, I had just come from three other places and they had shelves full of 7.62x39 @ $6 per box.

He also has been known to have pulled the panic guns/mags in back and puts them out one at a time @at $1k for AK's, $800 for Yugo SKS's, and well over $2500 for AR rifles. Mags all priced likewise.

He is using scare tactics on the novice and panicky buyers to stuff his pockets. All his staff preach about conspiracies to the unsuspecting.

This guy I have problems with.

I completely agree with avoiding someone who's a liar and drums up business by misleading or deceiving his customers. But I'd avoid anyone else who did that as well -- not just a gun dealer.

Scare tatics I detest. But then some would say all is fair and it is the buyers fault for not being educated. He just practicing capatalism.

One man's "gouge" is another man's "I want it more than you do."

If you are only willing to pay $10, and another guy is willing to pay $20 ... why should I sell it to you for $10? (no matter what the "it" is, guns, butter, dozen roses, etc etc)

I put a used Hi-Point 9mm rifle on Gunbroker on a penny auction. It got bid up to over $350 (and yes, I've been paid for it). Should I have called them up and said "sorry, you want to pay too much, I'm going to sell it to the guy that bid $250"?

JohnBT, they say they are getting in around 200 a week. Im still seeing them available from several reputable businesses for the same prices as before Obama decided to stimulate the economy.

I can't help but wonder if the O.P. has been out of the country for the past month and is unaware of current events.

O.P. is upset at the Glock magazines @ $53.00. Heck he should be glad he isn't buying for a Beretta 92. Regular msrp is $50.00.

You have your choice with today's market. History has shown with past gun, magazine and primer scares that the fear subsides after a few months and as inventory catches up prices will drop.

On the other hand this is the first time that we have a maxist, non-Christian President who has made public statements about his desire to fundamentally change America. Whatever your politcal views are it is certain that Obama will not cease his efforts to impose his radical beliefs on the American people.

Sam1911 said it best; "Getting offended about it is kind of childish."

I do agree with the bottom line. You shouldn't have let yourself get caught with your pants down.

i dont understand this threads

i have more than enough weapons and hunderds of mags for each

and thousands of rounds also

if you dont want to pay dont, nobody is forcing you

if you have to buy then pay and support your lgs

if you find something cheap it wont be for long

I work in the business. I'm currently working 6 days/week, while things are crazy.

Every day, I hear variations of the same thing:

"Everybody is out of everything, and when I find what I want, the price is so high!"

It's only getting worse, as people continue to consume what's available. At the rate things are moving at, we're going to see Glock 19s and 17s as dry as ARs, soon.