LGS's that fear gouge. Would or will you go back?

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"The market is much better off that firearms are still being offered at an elevated price than not offered at all."

There is no functional difference between selling firearms at a price people can't afford vs not selling them at all.

Yes, SOMEONE is buying them at that price (2-4x MSRP), but they aren't going to be your long term customers, unless prices never come back down, which I doubt.

But yeah, I can walk away. I buy ammo on a regular basis and I stocked up on ammo and mags when it became clear Obama would probably win. It was derided as "panic buying" then, but I got the mags and ammo at very near the normal prices.

The people who can't walk away are those whose precious few mags are busted, who've run through their smaller stash of ammo (because they don't have the means to buy in bulk), who just got into the shooting world because of age or need for self defense. "Here's a great gun for X! Did I mention it will cost as much as your rent for 3 months, you only have the one magazine (so baby it), and ammo, if you can find it, is too expensive to practice with. Have a nice day!"

I mean really, people are always coming down on car salesmen gouging consumers, but even they don't charge twice what the MSRP is.
 
Trick question!!


The correct response would be...

[X] The hot college chick wearing a bikini that wants to "work out some sort of a deal.". :D

On topic... I have paid $40 for a MOSQUITO mag! :eek: That's right. Forty freekeeng dollares for a mag for my wife's .22.:banghead: And that was WAY before this panic. Ummm... I actually have a total of $150 in magazines for her $300 pistol.:what:
 
I have a S&W 422 .22 pistol ... mags are $45.00 each, and I have three. It doesn't make much sense to have a magazine fed pistol, and not have spare magazines. It's like owning a .38 snubbie, and no speed loader.
 
Like I said it still isn't ethical, but that's what this world has come to...

An adequate profit is something that greedy people will never understand, I feel sorry for all of those types. The ones that feel a maximum profit has to be made even if it means being unethical. There have been a few businesses like that described here in this thread. However, the folks that came down on me, even if in an amiable way, will never understand the meaning of being fair, or ethical, with others. Don't get git yer panties in a twist because I said that either. If you do, then the truth must hurt. An adequate profit retains loyal customers and gains new loyal customers. An adequate profit is the kind that a business owner like what Frogomatik described makes. :eek: That type of businessman is rare in today's environment however.

If one doesn't care how much one pays for things then I suppose one would buy their stuff at the highest price that could be found and walk out smiling. That, at least, will give bragging rights. But as I said, the well-off understand greed better than compassion or fair play. :cool:

Of course nobody ever said life was fair. I've never expected it to be, but then, what's fair for one economic sector is a rip-off to another. I haven't always been broke, just since the company I worked for for 25 years closed the door two+ years ago. Now I'm in college getting my BAS in IT, 3.98 GPA I might add because I'm proud of that fact. However, because I've been on the well-to-do side and the po-folk side, I can see things; maybe better, maybe not, but I've seen both sides regardless. :p Nevertheless, this isn't about me because I have and had what I needed or it's on back-order.

What justice06rr and Nuclear said is true. There is a segment of the present situation that doesn't have the knowledge to know what's good or bad, price wise. Of course thinking about those people in a favorable, maybe even compassionate light, would be outright weakminded I'm sure, after all, they should do their homework before going out to purchase something. Therefore, the gouging is not screwing everybody, just the ones that aren't knowledgeable. That makes it all better I guess. :)

Lost cause. I didn't intend this to be a lesson in moral decency. I was simply saying that only the greedy think that gouging is a good thing and publicly condone such behavior. But I suppose I should have known as much. Greed rules! :D

So, I stand corrected and applaud the reasoning and logic I've heard here today. It helps me understand just a bit more why this country is in such a sad state of affairs. It's all the random acts of kindness....:banghead: ;)
 
One shop (pawn) sold me a Draco AK for ~$700 when they sell for at least $1500 elsewhere.
Dude, you got HOSED!

Dracos were under $300! I think your pawn shop gouged you!
 
I'm on both sides of the fence on this issue. I've recently had enough post secondary level business courses to (sort of) agree with the capitalist way of raising prices per current demand even though I'm not comfortable with it. But since I'm still in that post-secondary learning phase I'm absolutely broke and wish it weren't true.

Hopefully, then, your business classes instructed about the difference between "purchase cost" and "replacement cost" of stock on hand in a store.
 
What some call gouging is actually market economics and capitalism at work.

Why should a gun shop put stuff out at a price that is half the market price, so some guy can buy it, walk across the street, and double the price? The shop owner has overhead, and he's going to be staring down the barrel of a minimum 90-day scarcity of merchandise, maybe a lot longer.

If pmags are not worth $53 nobody will buy them. If ARs are not worth $1800 nobody will buy them. If you don't like the prices then don't spend your money. If enough people don't buy, maybe prices will come down sooner. It's the law of supply and demand.

Let's be honest- anybody who didn't see this coming was asleep for four years.
 
There is no functional difference between selling firearms at a price people can't afford vs not selling them at all.
And yet, SOME people ... MANY people ... CAN afford them at the prices being charged. That's the point.

Look, three months ago you could have bought a really decent AR for $800. But that's not FAIR! I couldn't afford one at that price! Where's MINE? Guess that's ok, because YOU could afford one?

But now they're $1,800, and that's now out of YOUR price range...so yes, now it is unethical gouging?

Is "ethical vs. unethical" a judgment based on which percentage of the population is left out in the cold, unable to purchase it? In that case, I know folks for whom any gun at all is beyond their means! Woah, the dealers must be gouging on ALL guns because some folks can't afford ANY of them! This is worse than I thought! ;)

Yes, SOMEONE is buying them at that price (2-4x MSRP), but they aren't going to be your long term customers, unless prices never come back down, which I doubt.
Wait, let me get this straight...the guy who has $3,000 to spend on an AR is less likely to be a good customer than the guy who doesn't have that kind of disposable income? Ohhhkay.

I hear this "long term customers should be treated better..." sort of talk, but it sounds like sour grapes and elitism to me. I WANT Mr. Rolex to run out and spend $3,000 on an AR! Maybe he didn't own one before. Well, now maybe he's got a different perspective in the voting booth! A customer is a person with cash to spend. The more cash to spend, the better a customer, in general.
 
I've said this before and I'll say it again- all of y'all that want to bash on people for gouging-

I have 7.62x51 ammo in sealed battlepacks- South African.

Anybody that wants it, I will sell it to your for the price I paid for it years ago. iirc, it's $200 for 980 rounds plus shipping.
However I only accept payment in pre-'64 US silver dollars, halves, quarters or dimes at face value. Since those coins are still usable at face value, anybody trying to say they are worth more is obviously a gouger.

Any takers?
 
I think all lot of these are apples/ oranges. There is a supply demand curve at work here but there are also gougers. The shop that follows this curve is reasonable in practice. The shop that hides all but one in the back so that a false sense of scarcity seams to justify the price, which in some cases are much higher than than the general curve, are I little shady in practice. The worst gouging I've seen is F2F sellers. Used bushmaster .223, 4x tactical scope, fore grip, and 1000 rds of cheap bulk, and the guys asking $6500.00.
I'm sorry that far exceeds the supply demand curve. But I can just see him as an idiot and be fine with that. What gets me raving about it is when a panicked patron pays the guy his ridiculous asking price and validates the pricing,at which point other sellers will follow.
 
If a guy has to pay his rent in 10 days and is out of work and decides to sell his AR to pay it, he has some choices.

He can sell it today for $1000.
If he waits a few days, he can sell it for $1200
If he waits a week he can sell it for $1500
If he holds out for as long as he can he could get $1800 for it.

Which should he take?
 
One of my very good friends manages a gun store in my hometown. I talked to him today and he is sold out of every semi-auto rifle, most handguns, and all magazines including ten rounders (PA has no magazine capacity restrictions).
They have to pay what they have to pay to get what replacements in they can get, and things sell out immediately.
I don't blame gun stores for this situation.
 
He's probably going to stay sold out, too. The firearm distributors that dealer buy from are pretty much out of stock on any semiautomatic rifles or pistols, as well as most revolvers, save some single-action models and derringers. I can't order a Glock at any price.

RSR, one of the biggest distributors in the country, carries 1,669 models of handguns. At this time, there are 5 models in stock. Five. Three of those are .22s.

So, when you see a dealer who has increased his prices, try to remember that what he has in the display case may be all he has to sell for a while.
 
I have to wonder how many of these overpriced guns are going to first time gun buyers? I can't see any of "us" paying double for anything mainstream that was 50% less in November. I doubt investors will pay 2x MSRP as a potential profit in the coming years. So, is it a first time buyer who has no points of reference who is paying these prices? Does that mean the gun community is expanding in leaps and bounds? Will this swing more votes our way in future elections because we have so many new gun people in our ranks? It has to make you wonder.....
 
I sincerely hope that all of you who are "never going back" to certain gun stores are the same kinda people who would pay a reasonable markup to buy from the same gun store before the craze.

Most of us figure out what we want, then shop like heck for the LOWEST price. Why is it ok for us to do that - expecting all gun shops to eek out minimal margins - but it's not ok for them to profit from a buying craze?
 
I sincerely hope that all of you who are "never going back" to certain gun stores are the same kinda people who would pay a reasonable markup to buy from the same gun store before the craze.

Most of us figure out what we want, then shop like heck for the LOWEST price. Why is it ok for us to do that - expecting all gun shops to eek out minimal margins - but it's not ok for them to profit from a buying craze?

I'd say with this perfect analogy that this thread has been fully answered. Well done.
 
Because its bad business.

You are not forced to buy it, but some people do not know any better unfortunately and would pay that inflated price because they "feel the need" to buy it, or have extra money to afford it.

Just look at whats going on with CTD

If it is bad business you don't have to do a darn thing other than 'not buy'

Whining incessantly on the internet isn't necessary for things to run their course.
 
I sincerely hope that all of you who are "never going back" to certain gun stores are the same kinda people who would pay a reasonable markup to buy from the same gun store before the craze.

Most of us figure out what we want, then shop like heck for the LOWEST price. Why is it ok for us to do that - expecting all gun shops to eek out minimal margins - but it's not ok for them to profit from a buying craze?

That's too much logic for this situation. Won't work. It's like trying to use logic on antis who scream about gun control being 'for the children'. You are going to have to use emotion to get through.
 
One thing about raised prices I haven't seen mentioned is the store owner's REPLACEMENT costs for the goods being sold. If his costs to get more inventory are going up, then he needs to raise his prices NOW to reflect that

If he buys item X for $1 and sells it for $2, and now his cost for X will be $2, he needs to raise his price to $4 to keep his business model and profit/cost ratios intact, and be able to buy more goods when available

And let's not forget all the new taxes that went into effect a few weeks ago - thanks to the health care. $63 (IIRC) per person increase in payroll taxes, 40% increase in base premiums for most health care insurers, etc......
 
Wholesale prices are actually not that much higher. In some cases yes, but generally not. What has changed is that you can't get anything. Once you sell the Glock/magazine/box of .45 that's it. No telling when you can get more. If you don't charge a high markup then you can't sit empty as long.
Also, if you charged, say, $8, for a box of .223 some jerk will come along, buy all of it and then resell it to his buddies for $18 ea. Somehow that's OK. But when a dealer does it it's "gouging."
 
Wholesale prices are actually not that much higher. In some cases yes, but generally not. What has changed is that you can't get anything. Once you sell the Glock/magazine/box of .45 that's it. No telling when you can get more. If you don't charge a high markup then you can't sit empty as long.
Also, if you charged, say, $8, for a box of .223 some jerk will come along, buy all of it and then resell it to his buddies for $18 ea. Somehow that's OK. But when a dealer does it it's "gouging."
You need some new "buddies" lol.

Me and my friends will toss each other box of rounds as the need arises. The cost might be they buy burgers that night or toss me a box of whatever when you get some. If cash mush be exchanged, my friends get cost. Not a dime more.

Legitimate price increases aren't in question here. It is the artificially withholding inventory to create the illusion of depleted shelves the scare/bully the unsuspecting into over paying. That is too underhanded for my tastes and has made me take the "low road" in more than one shop lately.
 
There is no such thing in reality as "price gouging", there is simply demand exceeding supply until scarcity causes a price increase.

This is when the "I want it for only what I want to pay" crowd complains.

You never hear complaints when supply exceeds demand until abundance causes price cuts (on sale), not once in working in a retail gun shop did I hear "Now wait, that price is to low, I demand to pay you more"...........
 
Legitimate price increases aren't in question here. It is the artificially withholding inventory to create the illusion of depleted shelves the scare/bully the unsuspecting into over paying.
Seems there's lots of different things in question in this thread.

From lying about being the only guy in town who has something, or withholding stock so it looks like there's a shortage when there isn't (is that a real thing? Who has enough stock on hand to withhold any?) -- which we probably all agree are pretty unethical, to a lot of people who are very upset and calling folks names if they see a price on a gun raised to what the same gun is selling for on Gunbroker or at the shop across town.
 
You never hear complaints when supply exceeds demand until abundance causes price cuts (on sale), not once in working in a retail gun shop did I hear "Now wait, that price is to low, I demand to pay you more"..........

You hear plenty of complaints if you;re a dealer. "That darn so-and-so tells me he can buy it for $10 less at Dick's. <deleted>
 
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