GEICO cancels car insurance over guns!!
- Thread starter hk-sigman
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trailgator
Member
FYI. Your personal info is still visible where you marked it out.
Inebriated
Member
Rage-inducing.
mcdonl
Member
Well... hold on now. I had my insurance cancled once because I had (Thankfully removable) signs on the side of my truck when I ran a landscaping business.
I suspect that if the policy holder had a "Business dealing with the sale of pharmacuticals" or something along those lines the result may be similar.
You are not supposed to conduct business with a vehicle holding a personal policy.
I suspect that if the policy holder had a "Business dealing with the sale of pharmacuticals" or something along those lines the result may be similar.
You are not supposed to conduct business with a vehicle holding a personal policy.
We should know all the facts before we break out the pitchforks and torches.
Was this a private vehicle policy instead of a business vehicle policy and the insurance company cancelled it for that reason OR is it a prejudicial practice based on an association with firearms?
Was this a private vehicle policy instead of a business vehicle policy and the insurance company cancelled it for that reason OR is it a prejudicial practice based on an association with firearms?
beatledog7
Member
hso said:
The letter clearly sates that the reason for cancellation was an association with the "weapons industry." Why is that ambiguous to you?
Considering that the letter states specifically the gun industry then I would say that they have something against guns. If it were because the vehicle is used for business then I suspect that they would have stated that he needs to insure it as a business policy rather than a personal policy. Most insurance companies would rather tell him to upgrade the policy rather than lose the policy by cancelling it.
blarby
Member
Geico does not do heavy industry commercial auto.
It says GEICO COMMERCIAL INSURANCE right on it. Chances are the insured seriously misrepresented the nature of the business to the rep who took the policy over the phone, or in person.
Once U/W pulls the digital registration ( as they do on ALL COMMERCIAL POLICIES- this is not a witch hunt) and determines the course of business of the insured, standard underwriting practices are applied.
They cover briefcase business, thats about it. They will do some light industrial uses- such as landscaping ( but no gasoline transport) construction workers trucks ( but no oxy and acet, etc)
It could have been a popcorn company- it does not matter.
Most states require that insurance companies notify the insured in writing if their course of business does not meet their underwriting criteria, and what that criteria is - in this case, the class of business.
They also don't insure welding rigs over 22k GVW, or , and here's the important part here :vehicles that transport hazardous or flammable materials for a profit.
This is not a gun issue. This is a "we don't insure certain classes of business due to the liability involved" issue.
FWIW- as an auto agent- I used to get a lot of these types of letters in my office.
We usually got them when placing business that the insured didn't want to disclose to an agent in person- so they called someone over the phone who didn't ask the right questions. Licensed agents who make money on the retention of business, not just point of sale- do.
Underwriting always does. They just don't get to ask it over the phone during the sales call. They don't get the opportunity.
Chances are ( more than sure on this one- knowing GEICOs regular business practices) that the underwriter called the insured, and asked about all his daily activities using the vehicle.
The insured told him, and it involved transporting firearms and/or ammunition as the course of business.
Sorry folks- they are considered hazardous or dangerous cargo. Less so the firearm- moreso the ammunition, but they do put them together. No, an underwriter will not willingly believe that you are in the firearms business, and transport firearms- but never transport ammunition. I was one, and I wouldn't believe it either. You might get a rookie to take a declaration, written and signed under penalty of perjury that you don't do "x, y. or Z"... but if you have an accident, and you are indeed doing " X, y, or Z" they will not cover it.
It happens. I have seen it. People lie to save money. In insurance- this is never a good idea. The coverage you need is out there. Its all about the law of large numbers- they insure the percentage of risk, with a little profit. Think your rate is high ? Consider the risks you are trying to insure.
All those crazy tin-foil hatty ideas we all have about things that can go wrong, once in a million times ? Thats what insurance companies cover you against- so yes, they consider them. They are on the hook for the vagaries of fate- and the certainty of human error.
Sorry, put the pitchforks down, snuff the torches.
It says GEICO COMMERCIAL INSURANCE right on it. Chances are the insured seriously misrepresented the nature of the business to the rep who took the policy over the phone, or in person.
Once U/W pulls the digital registration ( as they do on ALL COMMERCIAL POLICIES- this is not a witch hunt) and determines the course of business of the insured, standard underwriting practices are applied.
They cover briefcase business, thats about it. They will do some light industrial uses- such as landscaping ( but no gasoline transport) construction workers trucks ( but no oxy and acet, etc)
It could have been a popcorn company- it does not matter.
Most states require that insurance companies notify the insured in writing if their course of business does not meet their underwriting criteria, and what that criteria is - in this case, the class of business.
They also don't insure welding rigs over 22k GVW, or , and here's the important part here :vehicles that transport hazardous or flammable materials for a profit.
This is not a gun issue. This is a "we don't insure certain classes of business due to the liability involved" issue.
FWIW- as an auto agent- I used to get a lot of these types of letters in my office.
We usually got them when placing business that the insured didn't want to disclose to an agent in person- so they called someone over the phone who didn't ask the right questions. Licensed agents who make money on the retention of business, not just point of sale- do.
Underwriting always does. They just don't get to ask it over the phone during the sales call. They don't get the opportunity.
Chances are ( more than sure on this one- knowing GEICOs regular business practices) that the underwriter called the insured, and asked about all his daily activities using the vehicle.
The insured told him, and it involved transporting firearms and/or ammunition as the course of business.
Sorry folks- they are considered hazardous or dangerous cargo. Less so the firearm- moreso the ammunition, but they do put them together. No, an underwriter will not willingly believe that you are in the firearms business, and transport firearms- but never transport ammunition. I was one, and I wouldn't believe it either. You might get a rookie to take a declaration, written and signed under penalty of perjury that you don't do "x, y. or Z"... but if you have an accident, and you are indeed doing " X, y, or Z" they will not cover it.
It happens. I have seen it. People lie to save money. In insurance- this is never a good idea. The coverage you need is out there. Its all about the law of large numbers- they insure the percentage of risk, with a little profit. Think your rate is high ? Consider the risks you are trying to insure.
All those crazy tin-foil hatty ideas we all have about things that can go wrong, once in a million times ? Thats what insurance companies cover you against- so yes, they consider them. They are on the hook for the vagaries of fate- and the certainty of human error.
Sorry, put the pitchforks down, snuff the torches.
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blarby
Member
Type short lane LLC into google.
See what comes up.
This is not a hard concept to understand................
Call then- tell them you need a policy that covers you while transporting dangerous and hazardous materials.
Say whatever you want. Then at the end of the call, say it also involves ammunition and firearms, or commerical use of explosive gases- see what they tell you.
Then call back, and ask for a quote on a commercial policy. Tell tem you are a manager of a firearms company, and that they give you a vehicle in the company name, which you use for going to sales mettings, marketing meetings, and general office duties.
You might take a display sample, once in a while- but its very rare, and not part of your regular duties.
One of these is insurable. One of them is a realistic explanation, the other one is clean-sheeted to pass underwriting. I can bet which one he used to get the policy..........
See what comes up.
This is not a hard concept to understand................
Call then- tell them you need a policy that covers you while transporting dangerous and hazardous materials.
Say whatever you want. Then at the end of the call, say it also involves ammunition and firearms, or commerical use of explosive gases- see what they tell you.
Then call back, and ask for a quote on a commercial policy. Tell tem you are a manager of a firearms company, and that they give you a vehicle in the company name, which you use for going to sales mettings, marketing meetings, and general office duties.
You might take a display sample, once in a while- but its very rare, and not part of your regular duties.
One of these is insurable. One of them is a realistic explanation, the other one is clean-sheeted to pass underwriting. I can bet which one he used to get the policy..........
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BSA1
member
I did a quick search on Google and PRESTO!
http://www.gunadapters.com/pages/Contact.html
Well whadda know. They are a "percision manufacturer of shotgun adapters and shotgun accessories." Sounds like to me to they had a company vehicle insured under the wrong kind of policy.
http://www.gunadapters.com/pages/Contact.html
Well whadda know. They are a "percision manufacturer of shotgun adapters and shotgun accessories." Sounds like to me to they had a company vehicle insured under the wrong kind of policy.
Tcruse
Member
USAA is not gun friendly. They tried to keep guns out of the cars of their employees and got an exception to the Texas law that allows such.
Husker_Fan
Member
I would not be surprised if vehicles used in firearms related businesses are more often broken into than the general commercial fleet. Having different underwriting standards for different businesses isn't exactly surprising.
GAMALOT
Member
I've been wanting to blow that Lizard away anyway!
Double Naught Spy
Sus Venator
The name not blacked out isn't because of the OP as he noted. The former insuree posted the information on his Facebook page, LOL, that has a link to the website that is selling their products. So no real privacy is being violated that isn't voluntary. The information was made public.
huntsman
Member
you didn't expect the gungrabbers and .gov to play fair did you? I'm waiting for the homeowners policies to get cancelled, afterall they can cancel for a woodstove or certain dogs and other hazards.
blarby
Member
You will be waiting a long time.
Insurance companies collect a hefty sum on low-risk firearm physical damage/theft endorsements on such policies.
When I updated my inventory this year, about 20% of my annual ho-6 premium is firearms related special coverage.
Sorry, there is no military/industrial/insurance complex vying to disarm you via insurance practices.
Lol.
We have enough real threats- we don't need to enchant/conjure ones that don't exist because we are running out of opponents.
blarby
Member
In actuality, you should be thanking insurance companies- as they actually look at the percentage risks- not the hype.
They base their underwriting on actuarial principles- not mainstream media hype.
Anyone who owns a pool, and a house, understands this concept.
The individual liability risk from firearms ownership is quite low, due mainly to the mindset of individuals that own and maintain firearms in their homes.
The highest risk in this arm of loss protection is theft and fire- not a shooting tort.
They ( insurance companies) are quite possibly one of the few industries in our "complex" that actually rates and classifies based on actual risk percentage, not hype.
If you need a more exhaustive explanation of anything i've posted, from an insurance prospective- please feel free to PM me.
They base their underwriting on actuarial principles- not mainstream media hype.
Anyone who owns a pool, and a house, understands this concept.
The individual liability risk from firearms ownership is quite low, due mainly to the mindset of individuals that own and maintain firearms in their homes.
The highest risk in this arm of loss protection is theft and fire- not a shooting tort.
They ( insurance companies) are quite possibly one of the few industries in our "complex" that actually rates and classifies based on actual risk percentage, not hype.
If you need a more exhaustive explanation of anything i've posted, from an insurance prospective- please feel free to PM me.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Just what I was thinking.
Insurance companies balance risk with fees and issue policies based on those risks. If the risks are not properly represented, then the policy is subject to being voided.
Personal automobile insurance is not designed to cover the risks associated with various commercial uses.
MachIVshooter
Member
Pay attention to what blarby says. If you misrepresent something to get a lower insurance premium, the BEST CASE is that they'll discover it and re-write or cancel your policy. The worst possible outcome? You end up needing that insurance, and they end up not having to pay you due to a technicality in the terms that you are not compliant with.
As an example, my 1966 M35A2 "Deuce and a half" is insured as a parade vehicle, which limits mileage and usage in exchange for a very low monthly rate on a vehicle that maybe sees 200-300 miles per year on average. But guess what happens if I were to use it for towing a customer vehicle and something got damaged?
Insurance for private stuff, whether it is homeowners, vehicle or otherwise is always going to be less expensive and more inclusive. As soon as it goes over to the commercial side, it's a whole new ball game. And that includes commercial use of a private vehicle.
As an example, my 1966 M35A2 "Deuce and a half" is insured as a parade vehicle, which limits mileage and usage in exchange for a very low monthly rate on a vehicle that maybe sees 200-300 miles per year on average. But guess what happens if I were to use it for towing a customer vehicle and something got damaged?
Insurance for private stuff, whether it is homeowners, vehicle or otherwise is always going to be less expensive and more inclusive. As soon as it goes over to the commercial side, it's a whole new ball game. And that includes commercial use of a private vehicle.
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