Price gouging vs hoarding

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larryh1108

larryh1108

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It seems like many here feel dealers are price gouging and many disagree. There are already several threads on this.

My question is the opposite. Are the people crying loudest about price gouging/ammo shortage the ones who already have more than enough ammo than they'll shoot in 10 years? Do the people who are the most angry the ones who are sitting on 10,000, 20,000 and/or 30,000 rounds of ammo now but are upset they can't get more or get it at a fair price?

My instincts tell me that the ones who cry the loudest already have the most but want more. Hoarders. Is this true? Guys with all the ammo you need, do you feel the urge to buy more because of the shortage? If you have 20,000 rounds of ammo do you think you are hoarding ammo? Just curious.

The same applies to guys who are whining about the price of ARs and similar. Do you already have 4 or 5 but want to buy more because you may not get to in the future? Is the guy who has 1 happier than the guy who has 5 but wants "a couple" more but won't pay $2000? Again, my instincts tell me that this shortage is being fueled by guys already with enough ARs and enough ammo but want more "just because". Anyone care to step up and challenge this or to admit you are hoarding? Newbies don't know enough to know what a good price is. We can't possibly have this many people buying their first AR or similar. The market is dry because we have hoarders among us whether to feed their own greed or to buy now and sell later at a huge profit, something which they are crying about the retailers doing now.

So, what is it? Hoarding or new AR owners? I know what my gut says. Hoarding is behind this shortage. Hoarding by our own. They are as greedy as the retailers so many say are jobbing us. Flame away!!!
 
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We already had our rifles and side arms with mags, we are sittin on no less than 800 rounds for each and not really buying ammo unless we stumble on a decent priced box or few. Too darn az cold to go shooting anyway.

Said it other places, one shop slightly rasied some prices to resupply and I cannot fault him there. Funny, guys have consignment guns asking $500 morenthan the two he has that are his, they are still there as of last night.

Another was witholding inventory and only putting so much out but then lying/preaching how they were the only ones with said items and trippling the price. This one will never see another dime from me. I was even asked to leave when I called him on it.
 
Most complaining about "gouging" do not understand basic Econ 101, especially supply and demand. I would venture that some of these complaining the loudest are some sitting on huge supplies, while a large majority are the ones who likely didn't vote and then got caught unprepared
 
I have a feeling that most people complaining about the price of AR's have no reason to. Before this craziness AR's were probably the cheapest and most widely available that they've ever been. All the big-box stores carried them too. The people complaining now were the ones passing on AR-15's when they were 750 bucks and you couldn't help but trip over a few walking into Academy Sports.

It reminds me of how a child never wants to play with a toy until someone else starts playing with it. I'm guessing at least half of the people fueling this insanity are the ones that never cared to own an AR before, but wanted to get one because they might be banned. The other half are people who saw the resale opportunity either short or long-term and wanted to buy an investment.

Granted, I know that there were people who were saving for one, or just got into the sport and so on but they are probably not the majority. I imagine the die-hard AR-enthusiasts are cursing the lack of parts availability now though, and I can understand that.

Ammo is another story. I bought a small stash in November because I needed it but I still wasn't thrilled about the price. I wish I had bought so much more. While the market appeared to be flooded with AR's, ammo wasn't quite as prevalent. Nothing like now though.

Personally, I have 3500ish rounds of various calibers as well as 4 Evil rifles. I sold one of my evil guns off because the deal was too sweet to refuse and I had been planning on getting rid of it anyway. I'm not upset at the panic because I bought things as I felt I needed them. I don't like not being able to count on Wal-Mart to have .22lr in stock though. That's one caliber I never bought in bulk because it was so readily available at a low price.
 
I find the whole thing positively annoying, particularly with regards to ammunition, but at least it shows how much people care. It also serves to strengthen the financials of the industry so they can at least better weather the political storm.
 
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Also I would have to agree that the hoarders are the ones most responsible for the ammo shortage. I look at a lot of the people I see at gunshows who are buying huge quantities of ammo and think "How are THEY going to shoot all that?" Lot of older guys buying ten or twenty thousand rounds.

Maybe it's a perception flaw on my part, but the 65 year old guy with a big ole beer-gut doesn't seem to me like the kind of person who is doing CQB drills at the range and going through 500 rounds in a day. Also the guys on motorized scooter chairs buying in bulk are surprising at first, but those ones are old enough that they remember the depression and then I begin to understand.
 
Maybe it's a perception flaw on my part, but the 65 year old guy with a big ole beer-gut doesn't seem to me like the kind of person who is doing CQB drills at the range and going through 500 rounds in a day..
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You might be surprised to find out that guy shoots competitions four times a month and that ten thousand rounds will be gone in no time. Or maybe he is just a hoarder. What difference does it make?

Are 22-year-olds with 18-inch biceps, buzz cuts, Infidel t-shirts, and 5.11 pants the only ones allowed to shoot a lot?
 
I don't really care who is complaining or why. Prices and availability are what they are, sit back, shut up and wait it out. This is the appraoch I am taking, of course I am fairly well prepaired for that so I'm not upset either.

If people wany to complain, writer your politicians and complain about the people who are really causing this and put a stop to it.
 
Neither. I reject your premis. There is a temporary increase in demand with a long term shortage on supply. This has caused a price spike and supply shortage.

It is not due to "hoarding" or "gouging".

Several factors have driven up prices and reduced supplies including significant increased prices of raw materials, labor, overhead costs, war needs, export increases, domestic demand, reduced number of manufacturers, etc.

Bubba buying an extra case is not the cause of this.
 
To each his own, some folks feel the need to have alot of ammo. Others feel like a couple boxes for the hunting rifle is fine. My wife thinks I have way too much, but she indulges me as long as I keep the yard done, etc. I realized in 08 when the current administration was elected that eventually this would come, been preparing since. I think most shooters have. Who knows how it will play out this year as far as weapons banning bills go. And, when Cheaper Than Dirt is selling KCI mags for $40, that seems like gouging to me, even if somebody pays that much for them. Midway has stayed respectable through this so far, thank goodness.
 
Bubba buying an extra case is not the cause of this.
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... A million bubbas will buy up a million cases and my thought is that bubba already has more than enough ammo to supply a third world country already. Shortage? No. Price goughing? No. Hoarding by our very own is my guess.
 
Are 22-year-olds with 18-inch biceps, a buzz cut, Infidel t-shirt, and 5.11 pants the only ones allowed to shoot a lot?
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I chuckled at this. You forgot to add the 5.11 hat with the backwards American flag...you know, because he runs into battle sideways! I see lots of those guys walking around at gun shows, not that many at the range shooting them though. Never understood why they keep the haircuts...

But yeah, where I was going with that bit was that the newer generation of whiz-bang high round count rifle/pistol competitions seems to be (very generally speaking here) a younger generation sort of thing. Not that there's anything wrong with whomever participating if they'd like to.

And of course it makes no difference to anyone including me whether these guys are shooting the ammo they buy or just hoarding it. Bottom line is that the guys sitting on ammo and getting it as it comes in from wherever are forking out their hard-earned dollars for it. It's not like anyone got it for free and didn't want to share.
 
Guys with all the ammo you need, do you feel the urge to buy more because of the shortage?
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Not at all. We paid market price back in the day so we wouldn't have to spend more during shortages. The folks panic-buying tend to be the ones who don't have enough.

Same thing with rifles, or more so. Those of us who already owned them are unlikely to spend twice as much to buy more. It's the folks who never got around to getting one and aren't as familiar with the politics who will spend 3 grand on a Colt LEO.
 
So you were unaware there has been shortages for several years before the current rush. You know there are a few wars going on right? Several major plants have closed.
A million bubba's don't add up to a single DOD order, foreign military order or account for the doubling price of raw materials.
These are the Johnny 'Come Latelys' to the party that's been going on for 10 years or more.
 
"hoarding"? :rolleyes:
"gouging"? :scrutiny:


loaded terms, speculation about other people's feelings, specious arguments, implying people have more guns and ammo than they need, and wrap it all up with an invitation to flame away.


i have no idea who you are talking about when you say "our very own" but it sure doesn't include me or any of the people I shoot with.
 
I put up every single one of my non-22LR firearms on Gunbroker including ammunition and accessories. I started them at $.01 with no reserve and let the market dictate the value. I tripled my initial/sunk cost after having several years to enjoy them.

I bought a quality 9mm for HD use and a few more "cool" 22 plinkers, all at "fair" prices since nobody seems to care for those right now. I've got ample ammunition to cover the next year or so and will let the market settle down a bit before buying anything else.

So....is it gouging if the market will pay? If it was, people wouldn't buy. There's a fine balance between setting a price in the market and maintaining inventory. Right now, there's a GIANT sucking sound and those with can ask their price and those without can decide whether or not its worth it to them.
 
the ones who already have more than enough ammo than they'll shoot in 10 years................... the ones who are sitting on 10,000, 20,000 and/or 30,000 rounds of ammo now
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News flash: 30K rounds is hardly a huge stash, especially for someone who shoots frequently. I have somewhere around 35K, and except for a few hundred here and there of oddball rounds for guns I seldom take out, that's maybe a 5 year supply. 5K or 10K 5.56mm may seem like a lot to some, but if you go to the range 2 or 3 times a month and burn through 400 or 500 rounds each time, it's just not that much; On the conservative side of the aforementioned numbers, if you shoot about 400 rounds per outing every other week (not exactly high volume), 10k rounds is a 1 year supply.

Am I screaming from the rooftops about ammo price gouging? No. Am I happy that I have to seriously dial back my shooting if I don't want to spend $500 on every range outing? Of course not.
 
I've been "hoarding" for over 20 years. I've been watching the events unfold with a sense of it being entertaining more than anything else. I've been watching closing Gunbroker auctions like they were reality TV shows.

It is a little frustrating that I bought some AR lowers about two weeks prior to the CT shooting and was about to place an order for some kits. Looks like I waited too long, which isn't a big deal, because it isn't like I don't have anything else to shoot. :D
 
I'm not a hoarder, because I actually shoot a bit. But I probably have a total of 11,000-12,000 rounds right now excluding rimfire. I'm not angry, I'm amused by all the people whining about prices because they weren't prepared.
but the 65 year old guy with a big ole beer-gut doesn't seem to me like the kind of person who is doing CQB drills at the range and going through 500 rounds in a day
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I resemble that remark, ok, I'm not quite to 65 yet, and my waist is under 38", but plenty of us shoot. I shoot IDPA pistol when I have time, shooting a 3 gun event in 3 weeks and both of those use up the ammo. I'll admit that most of us don't go to the range and blast away 500 rounds of the cheapest ammo we can buy. My typical rifle day at the range maybe goes through 50-100 rounds in the AR's, 20-40 rounds in the .308, and if shooting my varmint rifle thats usually only 20-30 rounds.
 
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MachIVshooter said:
On the conservative side of the aforementioned numbers, if you shoot about 400 rounds per outing every other week (not exactly high volume), 10k rounds is a 1 year supply.
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For a SOF guy, 5k rounds a week is the norm. Just wanted to quantify where the line between "active shooter" and "professional" is. :p
 
Ammo prices are rising much faster than my paycheck, and I do not get a lot of interest for my money in the bank. So I buy a little extra and sit on it. Since I will end up using it, I am saving money a year from now.
 
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