mljdeckard
Member
The only Nighthawk I ever shot jammed.
1911. Practical for CCW?
- Thread starter coondogger
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I've never understood why so many folks think the 1911 is too large for CC. Honestly I find my 1911's to be the most easily concealed full size sidearms in my inventory riding flat and tight against my hip. Combined with quality leather (holster & belt), weight isn't even close to being an issue for me and I'm 5' 9" and 165lbs.
meanmrmustard
Member
Don't tell Chris Costa that.
The thing to remember is that if one's experience with any given make and model is only one or two guns then it is actually statistically pretty meaningless. Even if one had a sample of five or even ten of the same make and model it would be a pretty meaningless sample size. You'd need to have hundreds of randomly selected guns, 250 would be a good start and 400 or so would be much better. I'm going to guess you've not, handled let alone used extensively, hundreds of any given make, let alone model. Am I wrong? I know I haven't. This is a big part of why I'm most concerned with the actual gun in hand
Don't get me wrong I've seen particular guns that have really rattled my confidence in a model or maker, but its important to keep perspective. The same can be said to those that tout a model based on the relatively minute sample sizes most of us see. This is why I put a little more weight in the opinions of those that get to see hundreds and hundreds of guns run hard in substantially similar circumstances.
Even that doesn't mean anything unless you deduced the cause. Was it a mag issue, an ammo issue, an operator issue or a gun issue. The first couple are the most common causes. If a gun issue what type of failure was it and what was the cause? Was it the result of a worn spring (all guns will fail if the recoil spring is spent), improper maintenance, say very high round count with no lube or the like. Even if it was a gun issue, and not one that was a result of easily avoided neglect , see the above comments about sample size.
I know your Costa comment was tongue in cheek, but it goes back to the point of the gun one has is what matters. I'm sure Costa isn't going to forsake his well prove Nighthawk because someone somewhere experienced a failure with a gun from the same maker (assuming of course it was a gun issue) any more than he is going to dump his M&P from reports in this thread of an M&P failing, or any more than you'd dump your carry gun if someone told you they had used one (and probably one time) and it jammed. Perspective.
meanmrmustard
Member
I'm going by platform, and those guns that I've experienced within the means of "mass produced".
Once again, no.
Edit to Add: it isn't all about cost, its about who, what, and how that goes into making a 100 year old design worth carrying.
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I have 2 Rock Island pistols, a full size Tactical and a compact model. Both are reliable for me to carry. I am 5'10", 145 lbs and don't have any problem concealing either one. I haven't had any problems out of either one. As far as price, just because a pistol costs $1500-$2000 doesn't make it any better than a $500 pistol.
meanmrmustard
Member
If a pistol costs several hundred more for a reputable made gun vs a mass produced, poorly or rarely QCd gun, it isn't better?
Sometimes it is what you're paying for that designates what you get. I'm not seeing many $2000 RIAs, not that they aren't good. But find me one in the league of quality of a Wilson that's only $500. Because I'll take it!
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DMK
Member
If I'm not carrying my J-frame revolver, this is what I carry.
Colt CCO. It's a Commander slide (4"barrel) on an alloy "Officer" frame (6 or 7 round mags). I put some thin Alumagrips on it to slim it up even more. It's light weight, has great sights, easy to shoot, reliable and chambered in 45ACP. The best gun for for IWB carry IMO. It's a shame they don't make more 1911s in this size. AFAIK, only Kimber, Colt and Sig made them in this form factor.
I used to carry it in a Milt Sparks Summer Special, but for the last couple years I've been using a Kholster Full Moon. Much more comfortable.
Colt CCO. It's a Commander slide (4"barrel) on an alloy "Officer" frame (6 or 7 round mags). I put some thin Alumagrips on it to slim it up even more. It's light weight, has great sights, easy to shoot, reliable and chambered in 45ACP. The best gun for for IWB carry IMO. It's a shame they don't make more 1911s in this size. AFAIK, only Kimber, Colt and Sig made them in this form factor.
I used to carry it in a Milt Sparks Summer Special, but for the last couple years I've been using a Kholster Full Moon. Much more comfortable.
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Fishslayer
Member
mljdeckard
Member
The only reason I mentioned the Nighthawk jamming was to point out that the law of diminishing returns applies to 1911s in particular. Everything fails sooner or later.
meanmrmustard
Member
But, some vastly less than others. I'll take those, thank you.
Fit and finish is better on more expensive guns, but that doesn't mean that they won't have problems either. You get good and bad from all manufacturers regardless of price. If I had my choice, I'd have the old 'rattle battle' I carried during Desert Storm- 100% reliable even in sand.
I can give 1 example of an expensive 1911 being a lemon. I went shooting with a buddy, me with my Rock and him with his Wilson. His pistol definitely had better fit and finish but did not shoot any better and he had a lot of failure to eject/stovepipe problems. My Rock didn't have 1 single hiccup.
No I'm not saying that a $500 gun has near the fit/finish as a more expensive gun, but price does not always mean reliability
I can give 1 example of an expensive 1911 being a lemon. I went shooting with a buddy, me with my Rock and him with his Wilson. His pistol definitely had better fit and finish but did not shoot any better and he had a lot of failure to eject/stovepipe problems. My Rock didn't have 1 single hiccup.
No I'm not saying that a $500 gun has near the fit/finish as a more expensive gun, but price does not always mean reliability
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meanmrmustard
Member
And I've used cheap Turkish 1911s that were more trustworthy than Rocks. Because your one Rock suits you doesn't sell me or erase my experience.
I'd carry neither, end of my story.
What exactly are you basing this on? I'm not saying it is or is not the case. However, what is your bases, specifics please, for this assertion? You singular experience with a RIA is no more or less meaningful than someone else's or someone's with any other model.
Its not very helpful to just assert something fails vastly more often with out backing that assertion up with anything.
meanmrmustard
Member
See post 81 and 89. I was asked my opinion, same as you.
Give me your figures in PM, notes or otherwise, as to the amount of failure of mass produced vs crafted 1911s.
My basis is that even what some would consider good 1911s fail, more so than those made by a knowledgable pistol smith. Call it what you will. I've stated that too much ego is put into the 1911, I stand by that. I do t want to bash, but i refuse to carry it. I'll shoot them, enjoy them, but if I'm going to the supermarket late at night...I'm grabbing the G21, CZ75, Makarov, or even the SR22 ive never had a hiccup with.
Our mileage always varies.
My notes? I have no clue. I don't have enough experience with them. I own a few 1911s however that's not enough to draw any reasonable conclusions. I can add to that those of some friends and what I've seen in some classes. In sum, I don't have enough exposure to enough guns to draw any meaningful conclusions. The truth is neither do you. So you can go on all you like about mass produced this and high end that but in reality you don't have enough experience with enough guns to be able to make the conclusions you've been positing here do you? You are making sweeping generalizations and when asked what they are based on you have vaguely referred to anecdotal experiences witha couple guns and them simply offered more conclusions. Again carry what you want, but if you are going to make such sweeping and comclusory statements don't be shocked when one wants you to back them up with more than just the fact that you believe them. Further, you've been pretty quick to be dismissive of other people's anecdotal experiences but put a lot of stock in your own. When it comes to there being too much ego involved why is that true for those folks and not you? Or are you just repeating lines from Yeager YouTube videos?
Ummm that is not a basis. That is a conclusion. I am asking for the basis of that conclusion. A basis would be what guns you've owned, what ones you used and what that use was, how many rounds you've shot through various 1911s and other guns, what you've seen at completions, classes or the range. A basis could even just be what you've read or been told. Just stating another conclusion as if it were a fact, however, is not a basis. Rather, it seems to suggest you have no real basis for your opinions and assertions.
I think we have crossed into the land of obsurdity in saying or at least implying sr22 is something to carry and no 1911 short of a custom or semi custom is. You are entitled to chose a sr 22 and believe it is better than any 1911 from Dan Wesson, any trp, any sig, etc. just don't expect people to take you too seriously.
Ummm that is not a basis. That is a conclusion. I am asking for the basis of that conclusion. A basis would be what guns you've owned, what ones you used and what that use was, how many rounds you've shot through various 1911s and other guns, what you've seen at completions, classes or the range. A basis could even just be what you've read or been told. Just stating another conclusion as if it were a fact, however, is not a basis. Rather, it seems to suggest you have no real basis for your opinions and assertions.
I think we have crossed into the land of obsurdity in saying or at least implying sr22 is something to carry and no 1911 short of a custom or semi custom is. You are entitled to chose a sr 22 and believe it is better than any 1911 from Dan Wesson, any trp, any sig, etc. just don't expect people to take you too seriously.
meanmrmustard
Member
I do not need to be taken seriously, not a requisite for me when I choose a carry pistol.
Yeager? That guy who popped of at the mouth and hurts our cause? I think not.
I've not been dismissive, I just don't want to bash. It seems every time I type on this thread that I am, which was never my intention.
I've had several Rugers fail, had friends with the R1 of which one of two was problematic. Seen at least a half dozen RIAs at the range at one time. Most hiccuped. My good friend and work associate curses the day he bought his Sig. I've watched two Sigs fail to feed hollow points, sometimes at all. They're not cheap, but of two I've shot, neither met MY standard. I don't get the option of testing several hundred of each make. But the ones I know well have had over 1000 rounds through them, and that's low balling.
I guess, for your sake, I'll have to begin keeping notes of exact rounds downrange. But, it'd be hard since I don't keep guns that refuse to be a problem. For those that think I'm an elitist or hate 1911's, I have a RIA in .38 Super in layaway as a range toy.
Yeager? That guy who popped of at the mouth and hurts our cause? I think not.
I've not been dismissive, I just don't want to bash. It seems every time I type on this thread that I am, which was never my intention.
I've had several Rugers fail, had friends with the R1 of which one of two was problematic. Seen at least a half dozen RIAs at the range at one time. Most hiccuped. My good friend and work associate curses the day he bought his Sig. I've watched two Sigs fail to feed hollow points, sometimes at all. They're not cheap, but of two I've shot, neither met MY standard. I don't get the option of testing several hundred of each make. But the ones I know well have had over 1000 rounds through them, and that's low balling.
I guess, for your sake, I'll have to begin keeping notes of exact rounds downrange. But, it'd be hard since I don't keep guns that refuse to be a problem. For those that think I'm an elitist or hate 1911's, I have a RIA in .38 Super in layaway as a range toy.
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meanmrmustard
Member
And I've owned enough to have a qualm about carrying one.
[/QUOTE]Ummm that is not a basis. That is a conclusion.[/QUITE]
No, it's an opinion. One that is mine. Obviously there's several people on here that feel THEIR gun works well, I've not had this experience. "All 1911s suck" is not a fact which I tout. "Some suck, and I'd carry really no 1911" is closer to my words.
[/QUOTE]I think we have crossed into the land of obsurdity in saying or at least implying sr22 is something to carry and no 1911 short of a custom or semi custom is.[/QUOTE] If it runs better for me than a 1911, what's obsurd about it? Near perfect performance with a myriad of ammo types and brands, exceptional accuracy, fits in m center console; loaded with Stingers, I don't feel undergunned. I at least have faith in it, due to a knowledge of the performance of my gun. Same with my others: I don't keep crappy guns, inaccurate or prone to problems. My SR22, while not an ideal caliber choice, is trustworthy.
Edit to Add: 1500 through my G32, still no failures. Twice that in the SR with optimal performance. No failures in my Canik or Witnesses yet at nearing the 500 round mark. Just to name a few that've survived with me and get to stay.
bigfatdave
Member
What magazines?
What ammo?
What maintenance schedule?
Were they bubba-gunsmithed with a dremel to "polish 'er up reel good"?
Are you really going to trust something based on the rollmark on the side or the initial design, rather than doing your own reliability testing?
To the original OP, I have absolutely no problems carrying a 1911 as EDC.
Everyone's opinion on what brand/type pistol is better is like asking opinions on automobiles. That being said, some love carrying a single action semi-auto while others prefer double action, while others prefer revolvers. No right or wrong answer. Like anything a cheaper version will get the job done but a more expensive one will be more refined. There is no guarantee that what ever you buy regardless of price will not be a lemon.
I can only speak from my own experience. I carry a 1911 and also small polymer compacts. I'm happy with either as long as they are reliable. When I first got to Saudi in 90 I was issued a pistol along with my M60. I chose to carry a 1911 because at that time the M9 pistols were having trouble functioning in the sand where as the 1911 didn't.
Everyone's opinion on what brand/type pistol is better is like asking opinions on automobiles. That being said, some love carrying a single action semi-auto while others prefer double action, while others prefer revolvers. No right or wrong answer. Like anything a cheaper version will get the job done but a more expensive one will be more refined. There is no guarantee that what ever you buy regardless of price will not be a lemon.
I can only speak from my own experience. I carry a 1911 and also small polymer compacts. I'm happy with either as long as they are reliable. When I first got to Saudi in 90 I was issued a pistol along with my M60. I chose to carry a 1911 because at that time the M9 pistols were having trouble functioning in the sand where as the 1911 didn't.
meanmrmustard
Member
Magazines were factory.
I clean religiously, oil lightly, as do those I shoot with. We are anal.
No bubba jobs done. If its something that makes me nervous to do, I'll find someone reputable who isn't nervous.
I don't buy based on brand.
My favorite and best shooting guns are CZ clones.
bigfatdave
Member
Many factory mags are junk, some are great - most malfunctions are mag-related, so swapping magazines might have cured the "problems" you saw, for instance Armscor guns come with ACT-mags, which are OK range-toy magazines, but not suited to social work the way Wilson (expensive) or MetalForm (not so expensive, but you generally give up a round) are.
You missed the ammo question (ronnie reloader's special rounds? cheap steelcase? light target loads? hardcast lead wadcutters? {mine don't mind the semiwadcutters, even - I run them for bowling pin matches} blazer? federal?)
Light oil is nice, but my 1911s like grease on the rails and various other points, it works better for carry because it doesn't dribble away from where I want it
The more you post on the subject, the less troubleshooting I see you doing and the more knee-jerk reaction is implied. Skipping the entore troubleshooting phase and declaring an entire class of (proven design) guns unreliable is like declaring sedans unreliable because you saw a few on the side of the road.
You missed the ammo question (ronnie reloader's special rounds? cheap steelcase? light target loads? hardcast lead wadcutters? {mine don't mind the semiwadcutters, even - I run them for bowling pin matches} blazer? federal?)
Light oil is nice, but my 1911s like grease on the rails and various other points, it works better for carry because it doesn't dribble away from where I want it
The more you post on the subject, the less troubleshooting I see you doing and the more knee-jerk reaction is implied. Skipping the entore troubleshooting phase and declaring an entire class of (proven design) guns unreliable is like declaring sedans unreliable because you saw a few on the side of the road.
I love my full size RIA G.I. as the gun has ran flawless and shoots perfect with fixed sights, if i had to do one thing to it i would have a trigger job done and then it would be perfect. the only thing i hate about a Glock is it's like carring a 2x4 as it's so darn wide.
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