Trying to decide what to carry

4season said:

And if you come into the buy smaller camp what have you found that works for you, keeping in mind that I don't like striker fired pistols?

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What works for me won't be what you want - they are strikers. I strongly recommend going to a rental range and firing everything you can get your hands on. Holding one and shooting it are worlds apart. Generally speaking, the smaller the gun the more unpleasant to shoot.

Holsters make a huge difference. Many will suggest the Crossbreed Supertuck, and so will I. My carry guns are currently all Glocks (30,26,36) but I have carried 1911s, S&W revolvers from J snubbies through 6" N frames, and various others.

You might want to look at a Sig P2022 in 9 or 40. I own one of those, and it's a great gun. I shoot Glocks more than anything these days, so I carry Glocks.

You're generally going to be shooting for keeps at one to three yards. Your sights are fine. Granted that thing is a hunk a iron, sometimes heavy iron is actually what you want.

very strange to hear about problems in accuracy department. Israeli made jericho pistols (I had 8 different models) all where one of the most accurate service pistols I ever had
Cz-s and baby eagles are in general fragile guns. You can shoot occasionally from them for years but in case you train really hard and consume a lot of ammunition those guns will fail, some times very soon sometime a little bit later. Thats why sport Cz-s come with wide assortment of spare parts included. If you plan to train and carry a gun for self defense I suggest you to go with the really high quality handgun which is built up to the standards and had gone through serious quality check, glock, sig, h&k and etc.

You have Cz? well be sure to have spare springs and spare slide releases.

You might want to look at a Sig P2022 in 9 or 40

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that is a very nice gun which sells in US for a very low price. It certainly is better than any baby eagle or CZ.

Are you carrying a gun to fight with or a gun to make you feel better?

After trying several different types of ammo including several that I loaded myself I have finally found some that feed and cycle well, but the accuracy has never been what I have hoped for.

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1) The gun does not sound like it is reliable. If it requires specific ammunition, then it is not a good choice. It should function with cheap steel cased ammunition and expensive JHP ammunition.

2) If you are concerned about the gun's accuracy, blame yourself first. I bet the gun shoots very will in a Ransom rest. You likely need to focus upon trigger control.

Then when I started trying out holsters I couldn't find something that would be both comfortable and concealable.

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I find it much more comfortable and can draw faster from 9 o'clock crossdraw, but I can't conceal it there without a heavy coat.

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Your problem is how you think about carry and a lack of training.

Crossdraw is not concealable. Look at either strong side at 3-4 o'clock and appendix.

Adjust your wardrobe for concealed carry. Buy a holster with forward cant (for the strong side position) or vertical for the appendix position.

I have looked at the pocket 380's and 9mm like Kel tek PF9, Ruger LCP, and others but the lack of sights, cheep feeling, and very uncomfortable grip leave me feeling like I couldn't hit anything with them.

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These guns require quite a bit of work to use well. I believe they should not be primary carry guns unless deep concealment is required for some reason.

CZ 2075. Bersa Thunder. Baby Eagle

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You're making the classic mistake of placing price before quality. Stop fooling around with marginal guns because "the price is right" (yes, CZ is marginal--I've never had good luck with them). Stick with the larger brand names: Ruger, SIG, S&W, HK, Glock, Beretta, etc. You are actually losing out because the cost difference of $50 or $75 is immediately lost to range fee and ammunition testing. Save a little longer and spend the extra money to get something that functions properly out of the box (this means no 1911's).

Do not dump the Bably Eagle yet. Buy and test another gun first. Sell it only after you have confidence with the new gun.

If you have NO idea what to get, then just get a Glock 19. The gun works well and you can resell it with minimal loss if it turns out to be unacceptable for some reason ("appearance" is not an acceptable reason for a defensive pistol). If you think it is not concealable, then again, you're the problem. It is only 4.75" tall and conceals under any straight cut shirt that is not tight. I'm a short, skinny person and I have no trouble with a SIG P220 or Glock 21 since concealability is heavily influenced by wardrobe, holster and technique.

There are good compromise guns that are very concealable. Some of the best are the Glocks 26, 27 and 33 (though I prefer the 26 because recoil is very manageable). Included in this list are the S&W M&P 9c and 40c, Ruger SR9 Compact, various HKs and so forth. I find the Glock 26 to work in 95% of all concealed carry defensive applications since it can use Glock 26, 19, and 17 magazines. Any of these guns mentioned should be exceptionally reliable and accurate enough for defensive use.

If you complain about the accuracy of any of these guns, the problem is your shooting technique. They are all very accurate to 25 yards.


Glock 25 with Glock 19 magazine and A&G Grip Adapter.

The G26 magazine with thumb rest does not reduce concealment in the appendix position and aids in drawing the gun. It does reduce concealment when carried strong side and you may as well use a Glock 19 magazine.

makarovs by the way have awful standard sights ... or some small things on the slide that supposed to be front and rear sights.

Finding the perfect combo of gun and holster is a bit of trial and error.. Your likely to go through several of each to find the "one"

CZ's fragile? First I've heard of that. Thousands and thousands through my 75, kadet and P01.

Agree about renting a few guns. People will recommend whatever they like, but only you can determine what works. For example i couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with my first carry gun, an XD9 but renting a CZ 75 had me chewing out the center ring, even with my limited experience at the time. Some folks do really well with Glocks, some don't.

4season said:

And if you come into the buy smaller camp what have you found that works for you, keeping in mind that I don't like striker fired pistols?

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I'd buy a different gun, not because I advocate carrying a small gun, but because I dislike the BE (and Desert Eagles in general).

I really enjoy Glocks, but since you don't want a striker-fired gun, you might want to check out the SIG P229 or P239. If I wanted an SA/DA gun, the P229 would certainly be my choice.

Sig P250 Subcompact or Compact

1. The smoothest 6 lb. DAO trigger you'll ever pull. Easy to manage, yet VERY safe. Very little chance of AD in times of stress. You can carry anywhere on your body feeling safe.

2. Available in 380, 9, 40, 357sig, 45. Change your mind later? Buy the conversion kit to change to any other caliber or grip size.

3. Hammer fired, true DAO. Second strike capability. Dry fire practice without having to rack the slide.

4. Sig quality without the Sig price. Gen 1 versions had some problems (They'll always bring this up, but what gun hasn't had problems?). Gen 2, which have been around for 3 years already, are superb.

5. Accurate beyond your capabilities.

6. The contrast sights are excellent, but you can get them with Siglite night sights.

You won't find them discussed much because so many are pussies and don't like DAO because they claim they can't shoot it. (Funny how so many claim they're experienced, but somehow this they can't master.) But anyway it's for carry, not for fun (although it is possible to love it). If you can't shoot this at self defense distances, you probably shouldn't be carrying anything. Check out the mfr's website at sigarms.com and the owners website at p250sig.com. And watch youtube videos by owners.

No matter what gun you have or are considering, somebody on the Internet has sung its praises, and someone else has thoroughly trashed it.

Liking my G27. IMHO

I have been trying to figure out what to carry for over 30 years. Tried all the nice stuff, and the not so nice stuff. I ended up with a 649 Bodyguard as something to always have, or my SW40VE.

Hey, I own Glocks of all sizes, 1911s, HKs, Walthers, etc. what I chose to carry regularly was all about the comfort and accuracy of my abilities (not an expert's), and the reliability of the gun itself, combat (not match) accuracy, and lightweight.

Of all the fancy things I own, I keep going back to that $250 SW40VE for some odd reason . It is my flat revolver that can launch a 180gr bullet at 900fps into a 4 inch pattern rapid fire at 30 feet and POI and POA are all good. One mag is 14 rds, and I really do not carry a reload unless I am hiking.

I can get a 3 inch group at 30 feet rapid fire with my 1911. I can get a 1.5 inch slow fire with the same 1911. It also weight 42 oz.

One's budget, one's practice level, and general preference will guide to the "right" carry choice

My Tanfoglio Witness in 40 is extremly accruate and durable. That said it is heavy, you need a strong belt and holster. I'd look at white dog or anothe Kydex holstar. You also need to train, go to a real class and have an instructor who can assist you in shooting correctly.
I don't carry mine for CCW, if I carry it for other than instruction it is in an outside the waistband in open carry.
If you can keep it for that or your house gun and get a lighter gun. I have my own firearms training company and have fired thousands of rounds from many firearms. My IWB guns are a HK P2k in 9mm, a Glock 26 as a backup, and a j frame as an ankle gun. Find where Mas Ayoob is teaching and take his MAG 40 even if you have to take a loan out.
You don't need all of these guns now, but you need either a solid holster system or a lighter handgun.

4season,
There are a lot of good 380 Auto, 9mm and even 40 S&W very small guns out there. I like the very small Sig 238 in 380 and the equally small Sig 938 in 9mm. The Kel-Tec PF9, S&W Bodyguard 380 and Ruger LCP are fine too but I found something much better a few weeks ago. The S&W M&P Shield in either 9mm or 40 S&W is a great pistol. It does not feel, look or act cheap and it's very thin because it's a single stack magazine. It comes with a flush magazine and a second magazine with an extension with an additional round. Take a good look at the Shield before you buy.

4Season;

I got lucky, at least in comparison to some of the tales I've heard. Either that or I'm too dumb to know that I shoulda tried about lebbenty-nine dozen different guns 'n holsters before settling on a keeper. Anyway, the second gun I tried, an H&K USP40 compact in .40 has been in daily use for about 17 years now. The first was a small revolver that just never got comfortable. The first holster I got for the H&K was a Milt Sparks Exec's Companion. I just got done buying another one, 17 years later.

Just think of the money I've saved! Allows me to fool around with hot motorcycles, ski, and occasionally taste some pretty good whiskey too.

900F

I own both Glock 26 and Beretta Nano. Glock is 10+1; Beretta is 6+1. Beretta is single stack and thus conceals wonderfully. Glock is double stack and wider, thus doesn't conceal quite as well.

I EDC both and both are boringly reliable.

I like it fine, 4 season. There were some ejector problems initially. LGS sent it back to Beretta and they installed an upgraded ejector. Runs perfectly since then. Fit and finish are excellent. Good 3-dot sights. Shoots well, accurate, pussy cat recoil.

Front and rear sights are adjustable. Very slim - 7/8" and slide is 1/2" shorter than a G-26 slide. Smooth on both sides as there is no slide stop. Locks open on an empty magazine. Take down is simple.

If you get a chance to shoot one, do so.

carry what feels right and shoots straight. In a defensive situation you are not required to shoot 1" groups, just to eliminate the threat. I personally carry a Kimber Compact, or a S&W 38 Air Weight, witha NAA 22mag bug