My Child and my uncle's unsafe gun storage

This one is easy. YOU teach YOUR kid to keep HIS hands off ANYTHING that does not belong to HIM that he does not have permission to touch.

Worked with me and it worked with my kids.

End of problem.

First hello, and welcome to the forum.

If and until your uncle teaches you both about gun safety, I'd suggest you take on that responsibility yourself, as you and no one else has the primary responsibility for the safety of your child.
As a resource, check with the NRA to see if they either have a local program and/or instructor to at least teach you, so you can teach your son. Then again they might have someone to teach their Eddie Eagle program as well.

Here is a link to the program, and info, so contact them;

http://eddieeagle.nra.org/

The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program
National Rifle Association
11250 Waples Mill Road
Fairfax, VA 22030
(800) 231-0752
[email protected]

Lastly, you might be able to cajole your uncle into showing you both, but I'd be dubious how well he might do with a 4 year old. As a responsible gun owner, he should be willing to do something safety wise. Then again he might have grown up with guns like many of us did, and not feel like he must provide nanny state recommendations for his own family.

Regardless tread lightly on what you want, and make sure it comes across as a request rather than a demand, as it sounds like you are a guest and need them more than they need you(i.e. no rent paid, etc.).

Dave P said:

"They don't want to lock up and unload their guns which is their right,"

No, that is not a right, maybe a privilege. It most likely is against the law, to keep firearms un-secured with children in the house.

For pistols, there are lots of quick access lock boxes available.

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While it might be the responsible thing to do, keep in mind these are older people who sound like they took in their niece in a time of need. She must be very delicate in the way she comes across, and certainly not be demanding or start talking about the law and such. Remember she is a guest, and assuming she does not have other means of housing at the moment, one solution might be to ask her to leave if she becomes a burden to them.

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CajunBass said:

This one is easy. YOU teach YOUR kid to keep HIS hands off ANYTHING that does not belong to HIM that he does not have permission to touch.

Worked with me and it worked with my kids.

End of problem.

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Cajun... I agree, in that it worked with my kids but the cost of it not working is death of a child or another family member. Not easy at all.

I leave the house everyday and essentially disarm my 13 and 16 year old daughters because if something horrible would happen to them I would rather be party to disarming them than causing the tragedy.

They can both shoot proficiently and understand gun safety. But until they are out on their own they I cannot leave them with a loaded gun. And as others have said, kids have friends and that is a variable you cannot have 100% control over.

Ok, so what constitutes "secure" for a child under, let's say, 5? How about a loaded magazine in a glock? I know a kid cannot rack the slide and put a round in the chamber, but does that constitute safe enough? How about a loaded magazine next to the glock?

What are your thoughts?

Good advice. I would consider modifying the "tell an adult" portion to "tell your mom" (or aunt/uncle). I would also consider having a talk about not talking to his friends, teachers, etc about guns at all. He and the rest of your family does not need a playmate who has not been educated on gun safety wanting to see them, or an overly ambitious teacher, pediatrician, etc starting any CPS crap due to a personal agenda, etc.

I know a kid cannot rack the slide and put a round in the chamber...

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It can happen. It has happened. It is possible. Don't think it's not.

CoRoMo said:

Eddie Eagle... let him watch this as many times as he wishes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIEBrb_wRYc My kids have watched it countless times and enjoy watching it over and over. It's a start, but you'll need to set him down and seriously converse with him about the subject.

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+1 on that.

I am going to take the stance that your sons safety is your responsibility. Start with the eddie eagle program. Four is about the age this can and should be started anyways(although younger is fine too), even if you own no firearms.

Again, I cant stress that enough. Teach him, and train him over and over again, that if he finds a gun, to not touch it and come find you.

Secondly, I would start talking to him about firearms, and that all guns are always loaded. I like how someone above said it...tell him that an unattended firearm is like a rattlesnake.


Lastly, I really do not know why your uncle and aunt would not want to teach you about firearm safety and shooting. Are they just lazy? Hell, I love to teach non gun owners about firearms.

Mencius said:

Ok, so what constitutes "secure" for a child under, let's say, 5? How about a loaded magazine in a glock? I know a kid cannot rack the slide and put a round in the chamber, but does that constitute safe enough? How about a loaded magazine next to the glock?

What are your thoughts?

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For my kids safe means in one of my safes or secured on my person in a holster. It just comes down to the fact that it is not worth the risk. I am surprised daily by the things that my two kids do. I do not want to be surprised by the fact that they managed to rack a slide, or flip off a safety, or turn the gun around and try the trigger with their thumb because their other fingers weren't strong enough. A kid only has to do something they aren't supposed to once.

To anyone thinking "well watch your kid," you must not have kids. Sure, parents need to watch their kids, but they aren't hooked to you on a leash at all times, you don't shower and go to the bathroom with them, sometimes you may need to cook a meal or something. Believe it or not, a four year old will not always do what you tell them no matter how good of a parent you are.

By no means am I saying don't educate a kid about guns, I do with mine, but do not count on that to work.

The uncle sounds extremely paranoid and unreasonable. I suggest moving out.

Secondly, I would start talking to him about firearms, and that all guns are always loaded. I like how someone above said it...tell him that an unattended firearm is like a rattlesnake.

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Great analogy. Now what parent in their right mind would all their child in a house with an unsecured rattlesnake?

This one is easy. YOU teach YOUR kid to keep HIS hands off ANYTHING that does not belong to HIM that he does not have permission to touch.

Worked with me and it worked with my kids.

End of problem.

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Hardly. I'm just amazed at the number of posts that advocate "just teach your son" as if four year olds are perfect little robots who always follow rules. It's absurd.

If the owner of the guns refuses to store them securely then you must either leave or keep your son under your direct supervision at all times in the house. A gun for home defense can easily be secured in a quick access safe, such as PIN or biometric, without presenting a danger to your son.

Not a parent but I was a kid once... I agree with others who say to "demystify" the gun. A curious toddler is a walking hazard.

Good luck.

I'm another in the "demystify" clan.

I figured that you can't kid-proof a gun, but you can gun-proof a kid. When my son was somewhere in the four or five age range, I was showing some friends my 1911. He, naturally, was all goo-goo eyed.

So, after double-checking that the pistol was unloaded, I handed it to him and suggested that he make it go "Click". He finally did but it was a struggle.

"It's too big for you, isn't it?" "Yes, sir." "Okay. When YOU think you're big enough to shoot it, just tell me and we'll let you try it out."

Basically, removing the mystique and all the lure of the forbidden fruit turned the pistol into just another piece of furniture. No big deal.

The workability of this depends on the particular kid, of course, but it did indeed work for mine. Other than the chit-chat about, "It's not a toy," he needed no more active oversight. Knowing that he was welcome to watch, and to shoot when he got big enough, was sufficient to make guns just no big deal.

No, that is not a right, maybe a privilege. It most likely is against the law, to keep firearms un-secured with children in the house

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In some states it is illegal to allow kids under a certain age to have access to firearms.

In other states, kids own their own shotguns and go shoot squirrels and birds after school. It comes down to parenting and the maturity of the children. I know my kids can handle it, but the state I live in wont allow it. One of only a handful with a child firearm access law.

It looks like it's time to move. In my experience with 4 year old children I would NEVER trust them in a house with loaded guns that are easily accessible to them. I don't care how many times they watch a safety video or you have a feel good chat about firearm safety (good ideas by the way). They are 4 for Pete's sake! Either the guns have to be secured or remove yourself from that situation. It would be easy enough for your uncle to install some child proof locks that would minimally hinder access to an adult if an intruder situation were to happen. Offer to buy the needed drawer or door locks as a courtesy.


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Best line I've heard about loaded guns was from Charles Askins via Mas Ayoob - "treat'em like a pet rattlesnake"

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Thanks for sharing that. I'm going to use that when I teach others about firearm safety. It sums up the danger quite well.

It is a good analogy, but a gun is actually a bit less dangerous as it will not act on its own accord. A hungry rattlesnake will go hunting. I've never seen a gun do that.

phillipduran said:

In some states it is illegal to allow kids under a certain age to have access to firearms.

In other states, kids own their own shotguns and go shoot squirrels and birds after school. It comes down to parenting and the maturity of the children. I know my kids can handle it, but the state I live in wont allow it. One of only a handful with a child firearm access law.

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It does not appear from this that SC has a law regarding child access to firearms.

In this case, the best first move might be to install a keyless latch on the bedroom door out of reach of the child. That will allow the guns in the room to be secured but still be accessible. Then both the mother and child will have time to safely learn what they need to know.

I would suggest that they limit the loaded handguns to one for each of them. Maybe they should lock their bedroom door during the day if no other measures are taken.

I grew up with guns and the guns and ammo were usually stored in the same general area, but the guns were unloaded. We had no handguns. There was never a problem. We didn't play with them ever.

I think you should start to teach your own child about gun safety.

I've always told new gun-owning parents that for the sake of their kids, treat their guns similarly to the way they already treat butcher knives. Just like the butcher knives in your kitchen, your kids need to know that guns are not toys, they are tools and they are not to be touched. Teach them what the purpose of butcher knives and guns are so that they know what they are for and tell them how dangerous these items can be if they were to brake the rules and handle one when they are not supposed to. Both WILL cause bodily injury if misused, but neither should be hidden away and never spoken about.

THIS AIN'T CALIFORNIA

That said, talk to your uncle and educate your son (and yourself)
Cali, is cali, and pretty much EVERYWHERE else, doesn't do it like cali
there is no safe requirement, you are free (to do as you please)
this is your uncles house, his home, his rules, what he is will to do to accommodate you is up to HIM, all you can do is ask, take the wrong tone etc. won't help.

I don't know about SC but here in FL it is against the law to keep guns unsecured with a minor in the house

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There is no level of teaching that will allow a four year old to safely handle a firearm, escpecially loaded, without direct adult supervision.

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Agreed--and I would say it is difficult even with direct supervision.

Other thoughts:

I would keep working on your hosts, perhaps if possible offer to buy a quick access safe.

If push comes to shove you will need to decide if the unsafe situation you are presenting is more safe than other living arrangements you can make.

I am hearing from posters that they would have no problem with a child and guns in their home; I think what is different is that they are not your guns and your child is not the gun owner's child, so you cannot change your mind'and lock them up at your will.

If your uncle does not have enough sense to not leave loaded guns where a four year old can get to them you need to move out asap.

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This. Moving out is the only SURE way of preventing your son's curiosity from getting the best of him.

I was four once...and I know that I did not listen very well at that age.

I know your not in N.C. but below you will find the N.C. law.
I'm sure your relatives would not want a child to get hurt or even worse. I would just ask them if they mind storing them safely while your son is in the house.
No matter how much you educate a 4 yr old - you can't trust them to not bother a gun. They lack the impulse control needed to be trusted around loaded firearms. That part of the brain does not fully develop until they are 18 to 22 years old.
North Carolina law requires that the owner or possessor of a gun must not store or leave the
firearm in a condition that could be accessed and discharged by a minor who resides in the house
of the gun owner. A minor is a person who is under 18 years of age.
If you fail to safely store your firearms, you could pay the price. Not only do you put your children at
risk, you also could face fines and/or jail time.
You may be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor if a minor gains access to a gun and:
• Possesses it at school or school-sponsored event;
• Displays the gun in a public place in a careless or threatening manner;
• Causes injury or death; or
• Uses it to commit a crime.